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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

315 replies

betterchange · 07/08/2023 18:08

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.)

Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out.

In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

OP posts:
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9
Holly60 · 07/08/2023 19:38

This reply has been deleted

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Annachristie · 07/08/2023 19:38

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in.

What am I missing here? Wasn't the man her partner/ husband?

Where does the OP state that this was a 'man dressed as a woman? ' Wasn't she asking a hypothetical question?

Glenthebattleostrich · 07/08/2023 19:45

I asked an obvious (bald, no attempt at. a wig) man in women's clothing (black skirt, pussy bow blouse and mary jane shoes) to leave the women's toilet in my local cinema.

He said 'i'm just as entitled to be here as you, I identify as a woman'. I responded with I may identify as a supermodel but in reality I'm a fat middle aged perimenopausal woman. Now leave.

He and his companion were not amused but I stood firm and asked why his feelings were more valid than mine. He left and as I was walking out was in conversation with the management. I followed up with an email but haven't heard anything back.

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 07/08/2023 19:46

I had similar in the ladies changing room in Next. A man was standing in the middle waiting for his partner. It’s annoying as the curtains don’t quite close. Why he couldn’t wait outside like every other man I have no idea. But I didn’t feel brave enough to say anything. Another woman left without trying stuff on when she saw him.

Whapples · 07/08/2023 19:47

On the odd occasion, I’ve had to ask my partner to pop into the changing room to help me… I’m disabled and sometimes I end up needing a bit of extra help. There’s often no disabled changing room that’s separate - it’s just in the normal section so what am I meant to do exactly to help others feel more comfortable? Just not use them at all?

HarrietJet · 07/08/2023 19:51

Glenthebattleostrich · 07/08/2023 19:45

I asked an obvious (bald, no attempt at. a wig) man in women's clothing (black skirt, pussy bow blouse and mary jane shoes) to leave the women's toilet in my local cinema.

He said 'i'm just as entitled to be here as you, I identify as a woman'. I responded with I may identify as a supermodel but in reality I'm a fat middle aged perimenopausal woman. Now leave.

He and his companion were not amused but I stood firm and asked why his feelings were more valid than mine. He left and as I was walking out was in conversation with the management. I followed up with an email but haven't heard anything back.

He actually whined to management that he went into the women's loo and the women weren't nice to him? 🤦🏼‍♀️

Sux2buthen · 07/08/2023 19:51

AmazingSnakeHead · 07/08/2023 19:28

I personally would not chase a man out of a cubicled changing room section that wasn't clearly designated as for women only, no.

Agree.
Also, 'chased' is a bit of an exaggeration to say the least Grin
'I (incorrectly) politely pointed out that it was women's only and the man politely responded and left'.

I think calling op a heroine is possibly a stretch

gogomoto · 07/08/2023 19:52

Sometimes you need help with doing things up. My dp has come in with me, there's no rules against it. They are individual cubicles and unlike changing for standard clothes, it's not like you can pop out and show them anyway. Sorry to me yabu,

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 07/08/2023 19:52

The thing to do is pick a selection of clothes from around the store, the further apart the better. Go to the changing room and ask if they can guarantee there will be no men in there. If they can't, say you are not prepared to go in and drop the clothes on the floor. If hundreds of women did that on one Saturday afternoon it would make a point.

NB I have no problem about dropping clothes on the floor since I saw a dog pee on a rail of trousers... They need to sort out their dog policy as well as their man policy.

Sux2buthen · 07/08/2023 19:54

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 07/08/2023 19:52

The thing to do is pick a selection of clothes from around the store, the further apart the better. Go to the changing room and ask if they can guarantee there will be no men in there. If they can't, say you are not prepared to go in and drop the clothes on the floor. If hundreds of women did that on one Saturday afternoon it would make a point.

NB I have no problem about dropping clothes on the floor since I saw a dog pee on a rail of trousers... They need to sort out their dog policy as well as their man policy.

Yes, because the people working the floor deserve to pay the price for management decisions Hmm

gogomoto · 07/08/2023 19:55

I don't get why you are so scared of a male being in a cubicled supervised changing room, this is not the same as open changing at the swimming baths. That's a male with their female partner. I was sat in men's changing last week with 3 other bored partner's, they even provided seats

askmenow · 07/08/2023 19:58

Sux2buthen · 07/08/2023 19:51

Agree.
Also, 'chased' is a bit of an exaggeration to say the least Grin
'I (incorrectly) politely pointed out that it was women's only and the man politely responded and left'.

I think calling op a heroine is possibly a stretch

Show quote history

In this censorious day and age the OP is a heroine!

HarrietJet · 07/08/2023 19:59

gogomoto · 07/08/2023 19:55

I don't get why you are so scared of a male being in a cubicled supervised changing room, this is not the same as open changing at the swimming baths. That's a male with their female partner. I was sat in men's changing last week with 3 other bored partner's, they even provided seats

Why were you? Couldn't you have just waited outside?!

GCWorkNightmare · 07/08/2023 20:00

gogomoto · 07/08/2023 19:55

I don't get why you are so scared of a male being in a cubicled supervised changing room, this is not the same as open changing at the swimming baths. That's a male with their female partner. I was sat in men's changing last week with 3 other bored partner's, they even provided seats

Google “Primark porn” and see if it changes your mind.

GCWorkNightmare · 07/08/2023 20:03

GCWorkNightmare · 07/08/2023 20:00

Google “Primark porn” and see if it changes your mind.

Show quote history

They aren’t all with a partner. And as it’s impossible to spot the perverts from the non-perverts isn’t it better to just keep all the penises out of the space, maybe?

Nodeepdiving · 07/08/2023 20:12

Scousemousey · 07/08/2023 18:39

I am dreading the day I am faced with this sort of situation. Whenever we travel, I expect it to happen in an airport,but so far so good.

Apart from anything else, I struggle to keep a straight face sometimes, and worry about laughing and giving offence unintentionally. I can't be the only one, surely?

Funny you should say that, the only time I have ever knowingly seen a man (a transwoman who looked reasonably convincing) in the ladies' was at an airport. I didn't say anything, for all sorts of reasons, but I'm ashamed to admit that not wanting to cause offense and make a scene featured higher on the list than it should have.

Having seen a post on a Facebook group where a woman was asking for advice on how to explain the presence of a man (transwoman) dressed in a mini skirt, heels and fishnets in the ladies' toilets at a softplay on a Sunday morning to her preschool children, I am not holding my breath about the presence of men in women's places being called out... Posters were falling over themselves to praise the fact that this person was there. It did not seem to occur to anyone that any person wearing sexy clothing at a kids' venue might have nefarious intentions... Scary!

JudgeRudy · 07/08/2023 20:20

betterchange · 07/08/2023 18:08

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.)

Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out.

In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

Is it open plan or cubicles? It really wouldn't bother me if it was cubicles. If it was open plan I'd be inlikelu to use it. I feel the samecabout toilets. If they have a door I really don't care who's in the next cubicle.
You weren't unreasonable to ask him if he minded waiting till you had finished but if it's unisex I don't really think you get to decide who uses M&Ss changing rooms.
I can kind of accept that eg if you were using a train station toilet late at night you might feel vulnerable but (being genuine here) what was your fear? It wasn't even a solo man, it was someone's OH? I'd really be interested to know.
If it was a trans woman I'd feel just the same. It's busy mums with under 4s I can't stand. Many a time I've had to raise my voice at an unruly child poking their head/hands under my cubicles. I guess the answer is to have proper cubicles with lockable doors and no 6 inch gap....for anyone to use

Flossflower · 07/08/2023 20:28

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 07/08/2023 19:52

The thing to do is pick a selection of clothes from around the store, the further apart the better. Go to the changing room and ask if they can guarantee there will be no men in there. If they can't, say you are not prepared to go in and drop the clothes on the floor. If hundreds of women did that on one Saturday afternoon it would make a point.

NB I have no problem about dropping clothes on the floor since I saw a dog pee on a rail of trousers... They need to sort out their dog policy as well as their man policy.

You can’t take your dog into M and S

itsmylife7 · 07/08/2023 20:30

I'd back any woman if I was present and this happened.

I'd also definitely say something if a man entered the underwear dressing rooms.

I've discovered my inner Tiger since reading this particular section of MN.

Thank you ladies 😉

Needmoresleep · 07/08/2023 20:30

Beelezebub · 07/08/2023 19:09

What the ever living fuck…? The depths that some men will sink to never fails to dismay me.

Show quote history

It was on the M&S website.

Customer reviews of various styles of underwear. Lots of pervy men posting. I think there were complaints toM&S but they chose to leave them there.

I haven't checked since, but have stopped shopping in M&S. They need to get their changing rooms sorted. I assume the same men go into physical stores.

EcoChica1980 · 07/08/2023 20:30

You’ve conflated this situation with cases of trans women using single sex spaces but they are very different. I don’t really see why you’ve connected them like this.

This was clearly the male partner of a woman who beckoned him into the changing room to give his opinion. You didn’t like it, nor did one other woman present, but other women might not have a problem (presuming everyone was behind curtain while trying things on).

Full disclosure - I probably agree with you about the trans stuff, but why turn an innocuous, everyday situation into episode of the trans war?

LuckySantangelo35 · 07/08/2023 20:31

@Holly60

“It's funny because I always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women - I try not to though.”

wtf?!

LuckySantangelo35 · 07/08/2023 20:33

askmenow · 07/08/2023 19:58

In this censorious day and age the OP is a heroine!

Show quote history

@Sux2buthen

she totally is a heroine

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:35

EcoChica1980 · 07/08/2023 20:30

You’ve conflated this situation with cases of trans women using single sex spaces but they are very different. I don’t really see why you’ve connected them like this.

This was clearly the male partner of a woman who beckoned him into the changing room to give his opinion. You didn’t like it, nor did one other woman present, but other women might not have a problem (presuming everyone was behind curtain while trying things on).

Full disclosure - I probably agree with you about the trans stuff, but why turn an innocuous, everyday situation into episode of the trans war?

Exactly, there wasn't anyone who was trans present.
Nothing to do with them. Yet still it's blown into "trans people in changing rooms! Would you chase them out, look at me, I challenged a man in there!"
Er, go you?

Chuffaluffa · 07/08/2023 20:37

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:35

Exactly, there wasn't anyone who was trans present.
Nothing to do with them. Yet still it's blown into "trans people in changing rooms! Would you chase them out, look at me, I challenged a man in there!"
Er, go you?

Show quote history

yep this. More manipulation of facts to suit an argument. Trans people aren’t anything to do with this situation, and yet…