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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)

788 replies

ACatCalledPushka · 23/07/2023 22:00

Well done to the hotel staff. ‘trans ‘woman’ given key to the unisex changing room instead of the female changing room ‘trans woman’ not happy.

https://twitter.com/anneicoombes/status/1683090524641566721?s=46&t=5tHsrgY5T97exTqeFD4LWg

https://twitter.com/anneicoombes/status/1683090524641566721?s=46&t=5tHsrgY5T97exTqeFD4LWg

OP posts:
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Teenagehorrorbag · 24/07/2023 20:47

Helleofabore · 24/07/2023 08:45

@Teenagehorrorbag

I understand that you have been unexposed to the real motivations of these males. There will be some males who suffer from gender disphoria. However, even amongst those are males who respect female people and will use toilets that are not female single sex toilets.

Some Others insist because it
validates them. I can post numerous threads on this board where males have posted stating they fully understand women and girls are distressed, but they will never stop using female single sex spaces.

Some males use the female single sex spaces because it heightens their arousal for whatever sexual fetish they might have. It could be envisioning themselves as a woman or it could be another sexual need they have.

Some males have such a significant hatred of women saying no, this is all the motivation they need. There are plenty of males filming themselves in female single sex spaces making threats, carrying weapons, or showing their penises as some kind power move over women. Twitter has plenty, we cannot post them here.

Once you realise the various motivations, it really sinks in that you cannot tell what the motivation is for that male to be there. They don’t were signs at all. So the only thing left is a full exclusion, knowing that not all are like that, but plenty are so this is the safest and fairest option - full exclusion.

Please look up WiSpa, this thread pulled together a great deal of information as it came to light. Including two previous incidents involving children. All with semi arousals. The male individual in the June 21 incident was finally captured and was a known sex offender. It was further clouded by police reports of a ‘woman’, that they were looking for. Was it the same male all three times? I have never found that out.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4281706-pushback-at-wi-spa-in-los-angeles

And here is a more recent one in Canada

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-trans-woman-confronted-by-mother-in-swimming-pool-locker-room-is-a-convicted-pedophile/

Once you start to see them, there are many reports out there.

There was a person who also started to collect the growing number of male individuals who filmed themselves masturbating, complete with their estrogen or cosmetically enhanced breasts, in female toilets. Their penises were fully functional. In some you could hear mothers toileting their children in the background. Twitter banned that person and the links disappeared.

Then you have the women’s reports about Lia Thomas’ reaction in the changing rooms. Google will bring up many articles and videos. In amongst it was at least one woman stating that Thomas was fully intact and semi aroused. Now I believe that Thomas is currently in a male homosexual relationship (they both call themselves lesbians) so, this has some likelihood of being a male aroused by being believed to be female.

This male below was not allowed in the shared showers or toilets. However, witnessed the young women in various states of undress and those women have commented on this male individual’s state of arousal. This male was allowed in the women’s single sex space and used it for sexual gratification.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12087465/amp/University-Wyoming-sorority-sisters-say-feel-vulnerable-trans-woman-peeps-them.html

Gosh @Helleofabore - how naive am I? I stand corrected, thanks.

Helleofabore · 24/07/2023 20:58

Sadly teenagehorror there really is no way to tell which one is simply a nice male going about their way, or someone with another agenda.

However, we are also really at the stage that those males who fully respect women and girl’s needs are now the ones not entering female single sex spaces. They are not the ones demanding entrance.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/07/2023 21:03

off · 24/07/2023 20:26

If you think I'm wrong, and that there aren't people who think this way about their presentation, what it entities them to, and why, then fair enough.

But if you're trying to persuade me that they're wrong to feel entitled to those things for these reasons then you're wasting your effort, because I already agree with you.

Neither: explaining what is obvious to us to any board monitors or other lurkers who might not understand the logic.

vegantubbycustard · 24/07/2023 21:16

Ronnie Corbett passed better.

ACatCalledPushka · 24/07/2023 21:22

I think what depressed me most about this (as a relatively newbie TERF), who still had a shred of #bekind and a - ‘third spaces could solve this’ attitude, is the realisation that a third unisex space will never be enough for these entitled males. Nothing but the complete surrender of females will ever be enough for them.

The shred of ‘be kind’ I had left has now been shattered and scattered to the winds.

I’m done.

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ACatCalledPushka · 24/07/2023 21:49

Apologies I said ‘depressed’ me. I should have said ‘bloody angered’ me.

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CorruptedCauldron · 24/07/2023 22:11

Wanting to be kind and to find solutions that make everyone happy… that’s when the peaking begins. When you realise that there is no compromise. They want full, unfettered access to women’s spaces. Nothing less will do.

Datun · 24/07/2023 22:22

off · 24/07/2023 19:31

I think sometimes, some of the fury is down to thinking of things transactionally.

I suspect people feel that there's a tacit agreement, that individuals like this have held up their part of the bargain, and have been let down. The agreement is that they, a male — a full human being — have voluntarily lowered themselves to presenting as a mere female, opening themselves up to the possibility of either being genuinely treated as one of the inferior type of human, or to the humiliation and shame of being recognised as a male presenting as female. They feel that there's a social contract in place whereby these individuals pay this price, with all the attendant social costs that society imposes, and in return, society grants them entry to the coveted places. It must be maddening to go to all that effort, and invite all that potential disadvantage, only to be refused the payoff by a stubborn individual woman who doesn't realise she's part of a social contract.

Yes it doesn't compute that women are perfectly entitled to just say no. No.

There has to be a reason. Or a negotiation. Or a quid pro quo.

No isn't enough. Not wanting it simply isn't good enough.

We must be malfunctioning.

off · 24/07/2023 22:29

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 24/07/2023 21:03

Neither: explaining what is obvious to us to any board monitors or other lurkers who might not understand the logic.

Ah I see 😅

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 24/07/2023 22:43

I think what depressed me most about this (as a relatively newbie TERF), who still had a shred of #bekind and a - ‘third spaces could solve this’ attitude, is the realisation that a third unisex space will never be enough for these entitled males. Nothing but the complete surrender of females will ever be enough for them.

Yes, however much they're given, it will never be enough. As PP have said, there are some transwomen who do respect biology and will not seek to invade women's single-sex spaces; but for the many like Annie (and IW), the only purpose that unisex and/or other third spaces would serve would be for further validation as 'the place that I don't go to, because I AM A WOMAN!'.

Pure arrogance, considering that any 'standard' male or female person can use unisex facilities; but because they are one of the above, but choose to present as the other, that somehow makes it offensive for anybody to even suggest it as an option for them.

StefanosHill · 24/07/2023 22:51

So wearing a skirt is all it takes?

MavisMcMinty · 24/07/2023 22:55

StefanosHill · 24/07/2023 22:51

So wearing a skirt is all it takes?

I think having long-enough hair to constantly swish is also criteria, from what I’ve seen. Swishy swishy, aren’t I pretty.

Annaishere · 24/07/2023 23:16

Alternatively it could be the changing rooms were single occupancy and Anne is annoyed just at their gender not being affirmed

sashh · 25/07/2023 05:18

nzborn · 24/07/2023 15:20

makes me want to spend a weekend in Shielfield at the Mercure.

Could we organise a meet up?

nzborn · 25/07/2023 05:34

Sounds like a great idea

SinnerBoy · 25/07/2023 07:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SinnerBoy · 25/07/2023 08:00

Teenagehorrorbag · Yesterday 20:47

Don't be hard on yourself, being naive isn't blameworthy. Everyone starts off naive, then has experiences, which lead to "Oh!" moments.

Glittertwins · 25/07/2023 08:04

This is a man. I've seen him face to face also using the ladies changing room at the pool. Also the only official wearing a skirt - all the ladies are wearing trousers.

SerafinasGoose · 25/07/2023 10:10

Teenagehorrorbag · 24/07/2023 20:47

Gosh @Helleofabore - how naive am I? I stand corrected, thanks.

I didn't see it either. Until I saw it. Up until that point I was very much on board with the 'live and let live', why should it bother me how people choose to dress and present themselves, do whatever makes you happy, type of response. I think that's the position a good many of the women on this board started from.

Then it gradually became apparent what does make your garden variety TRA happy. Even wholesale erasure of women is insufficient, they need to be subjugated and preferably humiliated into the bargain. Women's humiliation is part of the 'kick'.

Until the land-grab of women's spaces started in earnest, the paraphilic tendencies of the men appropriating trans rights for their own ends might not have been necessarily apparent unless you've been unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end. One very good reason is that we vanishingly rarely see women publicly engaging in paraphilic tendencies (the only exception I can think of is the woman being walked around on a leash). I've been reading out of interest the manifestation of such behaviour in women vs. men. Perhaps predictably, I read that 'Some paraphilias, such as exhibitionistic disorder, frotteuristic disorder, pedophilic disorder, and fetishistic disorder, have little evidence of women engaging in them at a diagnostic level'. Again not unsurprisingly, the paraphilia which does manifest in more significant numbers in women is sexual masochism. The key differences here are that this is not (usually) behaviour that's masqueraded in public, and it doesn't involve the unwilling participation of unsuspecting bystanders.

That alone is a strong argument as to why we need single sex spaces.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 25/07/2023 10:24

Can you recall where you read that @SerafinasGoose

Glittertwins · 25/07/2023 11:09

It's made the Daily Mail

SqueakyDinosaur · 25/07/2023 11:38

Here is Anne Coombes' own blog from last year on the subject of changing for swimming. The entitlement and encroachment is absolutely jaw-dropping, IMO:

https://annecoombes.medium.com/why-changing-is-a-conundrum-following-my-change-e3914e5e14ea

"In fact, I don’t actually want to upset anyone, but I am determined that I am going to use the female changing rooms. I am not going to be shunted off to a separate facility such as a disabled changing room. As I see it, the problem with that solution is that once it is taken not only are you identified as being different but it will inevitably become permanent. Having been ostracised, no one will give any consideration as to when that arrangement will come to an end."

He goes on to say that it's up to the woman who objects to find a solution that he is happy with.

Why Changing Is a Conundrum Following My Change

I am later than most when it comes to transitioning. I waited until my sixtieth birthday before I realised that if I was ever going to do…

https://annecoombes.medium.com/why-changing-is-a-conundrum-following-my-change-e3914e5e14ea

Annaishere · 25/07/2023 11:42

well he genuinely believes he’s a woman

MavisMcMinty · 25/07/2023 11:44

Someone should email that article to the hotel in question, just in case they’re thinking of disciplining the staff member.

PriamFarrl · 25/07/2023 11:45

SqueakyDinosaur · 25/07/2023 11:38

Here is Anne Coombes' own blog from last year on the subject of changing for swimming. The entitlement and encroachment is absolutely jaw-dropping, IMO:

https://annecoombes.medium.com/why-changing-is-a-conundrum-following-my-change-e3914e5e14ea

"In fact, I don’t actually want to upset anyone, but I am determined that I am going to use the female changing rooms. I am not going to be shunted off to a separate facility such as a disabled changing room. As I see it, the problem with that solution is that once it is taken not only are you identified as being different but it will inevitably become permanent. Having been ostracised, no one will give any consideration as to when that arrangement will come to an end."

He goes on to say that it's up to the woman who objects to find a solution that he is happy with.

The women you change with will soon notice you are different due to your cock and balls, sunshine.

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