Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)

[ACatCalledPushka]

Well done to the hotel staff. ‘trans ‘woman’ given key to the unisex changing room instead of the female changing room ‘trans woman’ not happy.

https://twitter.com/anneicoombes/status/1683090524641566721?s=46&t=5tHsrgY5T97exTqeFD4LWg

That's right.

Many of these men may not want to actually assault the women in their own spaces, but they are absolutely using them for their own ends. The women's presence is crucial.

And, as demonstrated, not just the women's presence, but their exclusive presence.

There is no validation that this man is a woman, unless they are in a place that is exclusively for women. And the more unequivocal that space is, the more they want to be in it. Hence breastfeeding groups, stillbirth support groups, and rape refuges.

Men are using women on a conveyor belt of convenience to validate and/or arouse themself. (Not all of them, of course, HQ).

India Willoughby notoriously boasted about walking past numerous unisex toilets at an airport, to find, in the back of beyond, a woman only toilet to use.

Because the merest possibility that it's not exclusively for the use of women only, dilutes the validation.

It's got fuck all to do with a place to pee.

I bet a pound to a penny if it was a male member of staff handing over the unisex key there would be no complaint and no demand for retraining.

Love how Anne refers to the lady on the desk. How does Anne know that she/he/they/xe identifies as a woman? Did Anne just assume her/his/their/xir identity!? How transphobic of Anne.

I like a PP idea of anyone wearing trousers goes into the men’s and anyone in a dress or skirt goes into the women’s. If they have trousers but long hair, it’s the unisex. Same with skirt or dress and short hair. Sorted… until they take their trousers, skirt, or dress off.

Has 'long hair' been defined? What does it mean? Collar length or shorter/longer than that?

Whatever, I'm in full support of the woman who gave him the key to the unisex changing room and hope the hotel have got her back.

Ooh @Vegemiteandhoneyontoast good point. The person at the desk would need a ruler. Maybe hair 6 inches or less is short and more than that is long?

I had a brief discussion with a trans woman about how feminine does someone have to be to be considered a woman. Well I asked, but she declined to answer.

Or we could stick with if you have a penis use the men’s and if you have a vagina use the women’s. Anyone changing with small children or would prefer NOT to use the men’s or women’s, can use the unisex cubicles. Probably easier that way.

I've just sent an email to the hotel:

A very brief note to say thank you to the Sheffield Mercure employee who offered a transwoman access to the unisex changing facilities rather than to the women’s.

Women’s spaces and women’s right to privacy and dignity are incredibly important. Many women will self-exclude from such facilities if they aren’t truly single sex.

Your employee did exactly the right thing. The fact that the person in question was offended is not the point – the point is that appropriate facilities were offered. If that person chose to refuse them then that’s on them.

makes me want to spend a weekend in Shielfield at the Mercure.

'becoming'

Naughty Sharron, doesn't she know that ladies must always be becoming in their manner and behaviour.

Iain Anderson, Chair of Stonewall said himself last week that the Equality Act 2010 allows for single sex exemptions which should be applied where there is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

If it's good enough for Stonewall, it should be good enough for Anne.

Teenagehorror, you sweet summer child

"I'm not supporting them in any way, and unisex should be fine - but I'm not sure I read a more sinister motive into their wanting to use the women's changing rooms?

Are they not just confused individuals who are trying to find a reason for their confusion? I don't think I've ever heard of any situations where a man has gained access to women's changing rooms as a transwomen, for male sexual gratification? (Although I could be wrong).

We may find it deeply uncomfortable, especially if we have daughters, but I suspect these people are 'safe' - if not someone we want to share a changing room with?"

None of the men I know would ever dream of using women-only spaces. No decent man would. The good guys stay out.

I fear that will turn out to be a little verbal sleight of hand. I fully expect them to give a little ground on the same sex spaces in light of public opinion, only to say that males are now female, so now the ex males should use the female space. Hey presto! Same sex spaces preserved, and TRA extremists happy.

I hope all the criticism he received on his desire to violate women's boundaries will cause him to rethink his demands.

He might get a sexual thrill from being scolded by women, of course.

Only in March, you should be fine the rest of the year

And there's the rub. A brief skim of the Internet demonstrates how often a humiliation fetish goes hand-in-hand with males identifying as a woman.

A bit annoying really as laughing or taking the piss can be a behaviour limiter.

it's not generally viewed as the goal.

I think sometimes, some of the fury is down to thinking of things transactionally.

I suspect people feel that there's a tacit agreement, that individuals like this have held up their part of the bargain, and have been let down. The agreement is that they, a male — a full human being — have voluntarily lowered themselves to presenting as a mere female, opening themselves up to the possibility of either being genuinely treated as one of the inferior type of human, or to the humiliation and shame of being recognised as a male presenting as female. They feel that there's a social contract in place whereby these individuals pay this price, with all the attendant social costs that society imposes, and in return, society grants them entry to the coveted places. It must be maddening to go to all that effort, and invite all that potential disadvantage, only to be refused the payoff by a stubborn individual woman who doesn't realise she's part of a social contract.

only to be refused the payoff by a stubborn individual woman who doesn't realise she's part of a social contract.

What contract? I didn't agree to letting males into the female changing rooms. And what do I get out of it? A contract isn't a contract unless it benefits both parties in some way.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/amp/

@Teenagehorrorbag

How many women on this thread have never seen a flasher? I've seen many in my life.

Why on earth wouldn't they use women's spaces now they know they can?

Well quite — the rest of us never agreed to this. But I have a feeling that that's how it feels inside many of their heads: that if they choose to go to all that effort and invite all those potential social losses, then in "return" they are owed things like access to women's spaces and pronoun compliance. And we, as part of society, are not holding up our end of the bargain they felt they were making with society.

If I scourge myself with a whip every week like some kind of medieval penitant or cut a limb off, the rest of the world still owes me nothing. Different clothes doesn't even come close to thaylt.

Social contract refers to stuff that we all put up with in order to benefit from it, like putting up with taxes because we all benefit from hospitals and roads, or putting up with jury service because we all benefit from criminals getting fair trials. It doesn't mean taking pity on someone who has chosen to pretend to be something they are not.

There are 3 Mecure Hotels in Sheffield, can anyone confirm which I should be emailing my thanks and support to.

Just the one and that was one more than enough. Very frightening, on my own on a deserted railway platform waiting for my train home after a late shift. He was no more than 16, and I’ve often wondered what he was doing to/at women by the time he hit his 20s.

Good men stay out of women-only spaces. A man who wants to come in is not a good man.

If you think I'm wrong, and that there aren't people who think this way about their presentation, what it entities them to, and why, then fair enough.

But if you're trying to persuade me that they're wrong to feel entitled to those things for these reasons then you're wasting your effort, because I already agree with you.