"If you see a terf ... " Sarah Jane Baker thread 2

[IwantToRetire]

Not sure if anyone wants a second thread but as the issue is still live thought I would start one

Original thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4844898-if-you-see-a-terf-punch-them-in-the-fucking-face-speech-at-trans-pride-london-8-july-2023

So based on the 2nd DM link (they should give me a discount!) the magistrate will decide on Thursday whether he has broken this probation conditions?

Good news to hear he has been in a men's prison.

Might help https://www.gov.uk/guide-to-probation

Eva ‘ has since spent approximately £15,000 transitioning from male to female - Botox to contour her jawline, brow bone contour and shave, along with fat transferred from her stomach to cheeks.
She is yet to have gender affirming surgery. ‘

No, violent men cause women to be harmed. I don't hit people who I think are trans because I don't hit people full stop.

What you are doing, Merlin, is blaming women voicing their opinions for men's violent actions. You are embodying the first rule of misogyny, which is "women are responsible for what men do". Blaming women for men's actions is misogyny.

So Eva wants to look female without removing the bits that Eva can rape with? The phrase "wolf in sheep's clothing" springs to mind.

Being taken back to prisonYou can be taken straight back to prison if you have been released on licence or parole and you break the rules of your probation. This is known as a ‘recall’. Your offender manager will tell you why you’ve been recalled.

There are three types of recalls.

Fixed-term recallsYou’ll be sent back to prison for either:

• 14 days - if your original sentence was less than 12 months
• 28 days - if your original sentence was 12 months or more

When you’re released you’ll be back on probation and licence until the end of your sentence.

Standard recalls

You’ll go back to prison until the end of your sentence, unless a parole board or the Secretary of State for Justice decide to release you.

Your case will be sent to a parole board automatically after 28 days. They will either release you straight away or set a date (within 1 year) when you can be released on licence.

Your offender manager can also review your case at any time and recommend to the Secretary of State that you should be released.

Indeterminate sentence recalls

Your case will be sent to a parole board either:

• 28 days after you go back to prison
• within 12 months of your last parole board review

The parole board will do one of the following:

• release you on licence immediately
• set a date when you’ll be released on licence
• keep you in prison
• ask you to attend a hearing
• delay making a decision about your sentence until they have more information

So why is SJB going to a magistrates court. Is he being charged with a new offence, eg inciting violence?

Keep Prisons Single Sex has confirmed that Baker is being held in a men's prison. More info tomorrow.

So why is SJB going to a magistrates court. Is he being charged with a new offence, eg inciting violence?

The Mail article you linked to above said:

Sarah Jane Baker, 53, was charged with a public order offence following an incident at the Trans Pride event in Westminster, London, on July 8.

She was arrested following the alleged incident and has been recalled to prison for breaching her licence conditions, the Met Police said.

So yes, it's both an arrest and a recall.

I met SJB once, in about 2018, when he was in Lewes prison.
He was held with the 'special' prisoners, otherwise known as sex offenders. About 5 minutes in he told me he'd castrated himself in his cell and I was obviously supposed to be impressed at the lengths to which he'd go to 'be a woman'. He was absolutely full of his own importance but clear he was allowed to use the Internet, so no doubt he'll be able to Google this thread.

I had to come home and scrub myself clean. An afternoon of being in his, and the other prisoners' presence was more than enough for me. Horrific.

Glad to see he is actually back in prison and a male one at that.

Despite all the gloom I see regarding this shitty individual, I actually really detect shafts of light.

Yes, SJB was cheered by what I'd assume to be law abiding individuals at a public event.

Yes, the police had to be pushed to detain this individual.

Yes, there is the depressingly typical lack of correct response from the Left.

Yes, women everywhere had to stop what they were doing and transmit a joint WTF???!!! on social media to highlight this individual.

My optimism, guarded but real nonetheless, is that this whole episode proves that TRA has jumped the shark.

The individual is beyond the pale, not the beardy blokes who were misogynistically ruling the roost just a couple of years back. But a castrating psycho who had no nuance other than screaming for VAW.

The individuals are more and more violent, SJW, and more and more kink, Mika Minio breastfeeder.

The message is more and more OTT...call to strike women, call to normalise male breastfeeding.

The support is more and more marginalised, leftist trans allies only, sad misled transmaidens looking to bask in the Twitter glow.

The response from women worldwide, and even some men lol, is swift, uncompromising and unrepentant, and you would not let this stand.

And the individual is back in jail. And the TRA movement is discredited. And the cat is out of the bag, and won't be put back in.

Call me a naive idealist, but 2023 is a watershed year as the likes of Adam Bryson, Austin Killips, Dylan Mulvaney, Mika Minio and now Sarah Jane Baker, are not tolerated, and will not be tolerated.

Right now, the lobbyists and trans allies are looking at all this, realising their mission creep has resulted in irrevocable over stretch.

The battle will be long and brutal, but 2023 goes down as the year that rational people everywhere said No! No further!

There's no going back, the trans allies know this. However their whole movement is predicated on thought terminating clichés as expressed by Helen Joyce, and railroading these thru society.

It's coming off the rails. Another Joyce zinger, the trans rubber is hitting the real world road.

Interesting disinformation campaign re Baker being in a women's prison. Obviously designed by someone to provoke terf outrage.

They know the game is up. This story really fills me with confidence that the shoe is now on the other foot.

Really good piece by Jeni Harvey on why a threat to punch one woman is a threat to punch us all
https://jeniharveymindthegap.substack.com/p/baker-meant-me-and-he-meant-you-too

I'm guessing it will just be a slap on the wrist for the actual crime, but at least they got recalled and are facing some actual consequences.

Agree with others Baker actions are amongst other elements which really have derailed TRA cause in 2023. Their big rally was overshadowed by the fact they platformed a violent torturer. Countless more people peaked.

All the outrage helped get Baker put away.

All because at the end of the day they will never do safeguarding. They won't get rid of dangerous people and always demand the most absurd things. The days of TRA working in the shadows are over and when that ended it ensured the most extreme amongst them would become the face of the movement.

But we don’t know he’s recalled permanently do we? It might be just a month.
Tbh I wouldn’t be surprised if they decided to see this as a warning to him and gave him another chance. After all he just incited violence this time, he didn’t commit it. (Obviously I think he should be locked up for life but you can see them making the argument.)

Former Labour MP Laura Pidcock has spoken out in a sensible way on Baker and is getting a lot of views and retweets, one of the few on the "left" to do so.

"Violence against women is wrong, full stop. Encouraging people to punch “terfs” in the face, esp when cheered by hundreds (as happened at Trans Pride) should worry us all. That many on the left look away is indicative of a fearful culture,silencing many basic feminist principles."

https://twitter.com/LauraPidcock/status/1681197395890130944

Look at the replies. Lots of support but also the usual both sides show violence stuff. Pidcock has long been the target of claims she is a secret terf because she shows signs of knowing women are biologically real.

I totally respect anyone who starts with one view (Laura was pretty TWAW back in the day), but goes on to read the room more accurately, and adjusts their views accordingly.

For the Labour Party, that means hundreds of MPs and activists, and thousands of radicalised supporters.

Jess Phillips a few weeks ago. Now Laura Pidcock.

Acorns and oaks etc.

The only thing that brightens up these grim threads for me is the usual reliablke trolls popping in to cape for their violent heroes.

Theire talking points are't as good as they used to be. But they still make me laugh.

The Pidcock thread is prime peaking material. Her tweet is getting shared by Labour Women's Declaration etc.

Think the fallout from Baker could run and run. Grim it took this long, but that is the way of things.

Yep.

The way I see it, is that their power and influence is now inn direct inverse proportion to their sound and fury.

Thru never had any moral high ground or any slam dunk arguments, and science.

All they had was volume and momentum.

That "worked" over the last decade.

But their shouting and putting their foot hard down on the gas pedal is now heading the clown car to the cliff edge.

Who knew so many elites and those on the left were such loud and bad drivers?

The tweet from Laura Pidcock is very good and I applaud her for it. It is important as it shows that concerns can't just be dismissed as coming from the far right.

What was so refreshing is that there wasn't any equivocation. Straight up condemnation and inherent call to others to support.

Leftists sunk costs all vary. Some are so deep that any repentance or even basic acknowledgement of doubts will be impossible.

Some can be scaled out of, as Laura is showing.

The test will be if she tacks back or capitulates in face of the incoming firestorm.
I suspect she won't.

She's reading the room. Can she influence the wider Labour movement to align back to reality?

I don't even think it was the last decade, the trans thing peaked in 2021 and I think it's relevant that that was when many western European countries and the US were in lockdown. It was also after the George Floyd tragedy and the mass uprising of Black people in response. It was a febrile time and people felt (rightly) that it was important to listen to traditional suppressed voices.

TRAs took advantage of that to hammer home their more egregious and outre ideas, such as never assuming anyone's gender until they tell you, neopronouns, unfettered access to female spaces and the medicating of children.

Of course all these ideas existed before but it's in the febrile years of 2020 - 2022, when many people were spending more time than usual on social media and also questioning many traditional assumptions, that these ideas briefly made their way into the mainstream and were adopted by institutions such as the NHS.

Transgenderism has now peaked in the general public mind because of recent court cases that have shown this nihilistic cult belief for what it is. Unfortunately many institutions are still captured but that's because they adopted too fast and are now slow in unrolling those adoptions (as institutions tend to be). But it's happening, slowly.

In years to come there will be an interesting doctoral thesis or two to be written about the correlations and causations linking lockdown, BLM and the advantage taken of both these phenomena by TRAs.