Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

it was flagged as a team issue and we were all made to sit through a refresher on GDPR and all given a warning!

An official disciplinary warning on your record?

Another thing to ask ACAS about.

I would also start recording (but do not tell ANYONE) conversations from Ginny, do not say you are to colleagues, never admit it, and do not get caught - these could be used in any case you bring against the company in the future.

Back those recordings, as well as your emails etc., up on a password secured hard drive (encrypted), or two to be safe.

Do remember that friends are significantly quick to walk away when the shit hits the fan so act as though you are alone in this and be careful what you say to colleagues (talking from personal experience here).

Jaguar/Land Rover?

Yes, you need out.

This is not the place of work it was. Things have changed. In my experience of working for smaller, less structured places, they can be really wonderful places when they work, but you have to be prepared to walk when they don't.

No - it was Sheffield NHS Trust as @Ereshkigalangcleg correctly remembered. Many many vexatious complaints, all of which were overturned except the one relating to this person being in the communal women's changing rooms naked from the waist down which was deemed to be discrimination.

www.thehrdirector.com/legal-updates/legal-updates-2022/transgender-nhs-worker-wins-gender-reassignment-discrimination-claim-concern-among-staff-woman-naked-waist-changing-room/

I have worked as a catering assistant in a hospital. I never felt the need to remove my underwear

Wasn't that the NHS where women protested at a transwoman being naked from the waist down in the communal changing room / shower? A number of the allegations by the complainant were dismissed but the judge concluded that there was discrimination. Iirc, there were a number of legal bods who thought the judge had got this very wrong on legal grounds but as it was the NHS, of course the women's rights were easily dispensed with so there was no appeal.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4593138-transwoman-wins-employment-discrimination-case-against-nhs-for-being-treated-differently-from-women-in-changing-room

Free speech union might be able to help you too, if you need it.

agree with pp, don’t feel bad for the apology. See The Crucible for absolution on that, plenty of fine people have to make false confessions in impossible situations.

fucking ridiculous situation for you to be in. It only takes ONE genderist to wreak havoc

First, thank you so much OP for updating, like many others I've thought about you a lot since your first post. I hope you find a lovely job where you are treated fairly, because quite honestly I don't think the company you work for now will be there for much longer. As for your manager, it sound to me like he's in love. I hope they're worth losing his livelihood for.

This was my thought too regarding the boss being protective of Ginny! Or perhaps he is looking to break into the EDI 'training' market himself and needs Ginny for that?

Either way, I remember your first thread OP. When I hear things like that it makes me grateful that I am not employed by anyone else. Good luck with the job hunting.

And regarding your colleague, if the boss said it is entirely up to an individual if they want to record themself, what a pity your colleague forgot to put the camera on the recording of their reaction to the performance meeting content and accidentally used voice notes!

OP I really feel for you.

I know you’re logging everything, but I would seek HR advice on a colleague telling me about their knickers or sexual encounters. It is sexual harassment, surely no one needs to hear about this kind of thing in the workplace.

Best of luck to you. I feel sorry for all involved - the company owner is probably fearful of losing his company if he doesn’t pander to Ginny.

OP, I could cry effing tears of fury for you and your female colleagues. Just a thought, but would you consider contacting Sex Matters about your case? Some wonderful women in that organisation. I donate a small sum to them monthly and they are heroes in my opinion, not only very courageous but extremely intelligent, inspiring and tenacious. I wish you all the best. No woman deserves to be forced into participating against their will in a man’s (men’s if your boss is enjoying the whole sh1tshow he’s created?) grim sexual fantasy. Vile, vile, vile 🤬

Also, if you are a male and genuinely think you need a tampon, isn’t that some kind of psychosis / schizophrenia? He sounds very mentally unwell to me.

I’m not surprised you’re depressed - it is bullying and gas-lighting to force everyone else to go along with this man’s delusion.

On the recording point, please use them to make a contemporaneous note of the conversation for your records (eg email yourself), don't just rely on the recording in case it is challenged, but use it to make a note while still fresh in your mind and email it to yourself so it is date/time stamped.

Yes - making notes is ok.

Hi @idontknowwhattosay23 I am so glad you felt able to update us all, but so sorry for what has happened, you have had brilliant advice on this thread and of course you have done nothing wrong, nor have your colleagues. It is really perplexing that your boss cannot see 1) the precipitous drop in morale and 2) that Ginny is not good enough at the job to be given the plum roles.
When the time comes and you move on to much better things, would you feel able to talk frankly to your boss, or even have a get together with others who have left and have a coffee with the boss and discuss stuff, just so he cannot deny that it is due to how this individual has been treated vs rest of the staff: it would burn bridges certainly, and may not be anything you or others would want to do, but it is a complete mystery why one new employee has such disproportionate influence. Unless he is trying to get on the Stonewall employers index thing?
Good luck with everything, we are all rooting for you, the blindness of your boss and his lack of loyalty to you all is astonishing, sadly it would seem he would rather go bankrupt than open his eyes

If you don’t drive, take a look at The Work From Home Hub on Facebook. Lots of job offers to WFH full time or with very few visits to the office.

Thanks for the update Op, as I'm another one who has been thinking of you.

I'm so sorry you're having to experience this sexual harassment & discrimination at work & am wishing you strength to get through these next couple of weeks, get your holiday and find a new job.

I agree with the advice here - keep a record of everything & send evidence to yourself where you can. It'll help you to realise you're not going crazy & May also prove useful in future if you want to do them for discrimination.

So sorry Op, stay strong!

So much trans nonsense reminds me of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn talking about Soviet Gulags, he said the first thing he learned was that you could never beg for mercy as the guards were all communist ideologues who sincerely believed that everything they did to you however horrendous was for the greater good.

Ah found the quote

"To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good, or else that it’s a well-considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is in the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions.
Ideology – that is what gives evil doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others’ eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors"

Thanks OP for taking the time to update us all.

I think what you have done is absolutely brilliant.

First of all you haven't let the boss and & Ginny drive you out of your paid employment which you need. And them making you apologise in public has backfired because everyone else must have know, whatever the situation you just dont do that.

Secondly you have now found some allies in you office - and although the boss thinks he has put you all on the naughtly step, in fact he has created a women's room. I hope you feel it is a safe space for ou.

Thirdly you have holiday coming up so can look forward to that and in the meantime take each day as it comes. And give yourself a treat at the end of each day.

And I am sure you will find another job.

If you feel able, yes do record and take notes.

If the colleague who taped the meeting is willing, ask for a copy of the tape.

Then at a later date, when you feel able, send it to someone like Sex Matters and ask them to then maybe write an article saying all the ways in which the Boss and Ginny were at fault.

Because as others have posted similar situation have been happening and need to be exposed. Consider yourself a trailblazer!

As to why did the boss do it? I know it must feel personal because until then it had seemed a happy and very equal work place. Who knows? Was it a vacancy that was advertised and Ginny got the job, or did they just turn up and the boss say this is Ginny who is joing the team.

I suspect the knows he got it wrong but male pride and ego means that rather than admit thinks have got a little out of hand he is going over the top in standing by his mistake.

And, it does seem that Ginny is quite expert. Seriously, turning up at a work meeting ready to record a video. How many calls and conversations were there between the Boss and Ginny for that to have happened. My head explodes just thinking about it, so really do sympathise with you as the one it has happened to.

And just to say, if you feel able to leave the thread please do.

Because, though some dont like it, FWR is a real resource for women who find themselves isolated in terrible situations like this. And it could be a comfort to read this.

Hope work stays smooth and the women's room has time for laughs until your holiday starts.

And I am not dismissing it but please dont feel you are having a mental health crisis. You are responding as anyone would to be shat on by someone you trusted, embarrased by a typical trans egotist, had your livelihood threatened and more.

You must be emotionally drained, but you have been strong and sensible.

Your children are really lucky to have you looking out for them.

It's probably very silly that I feel as down about it all as I do, but for whatever reason this has massively knocked my mental health. I'm on tenterhooks at work now and dread every morning walking into the office.

You're NOT silly @idontknowwhattosay23

You've been gaslit and you're now being discriminated against. A trans-identified man tried to purloin tampons that you & other women had paid for.

Your management are ignorant of the law.

I know that feeling of having a target painted on your back. Good luck & solidarity

They don’t need tampons even if the bottom half is done. The surgery doesn’t give them a uterus and they don’t menstruate. However they frequently claim that they do have periods and plenty of people believe it.
For some, menstruation is a fetish. You don’t want to know what some of them do with tampons.
I’m surprised the f word is allowed on here in relation to this topic and I fully expect this post to be deleted. Women have been thrown off Twitter for saying this.

OP, thank you for updating (I'd been wondering how it had gone and hoping that it hadn't been the worst possible coutcome for you in the meeting).

I can't believe the absolute sh*te that we women (as in ADULT HUMAN FEMALES!) are having to put up with regarding this sort of thing.

I hope you get another and much better job very quickly!

It's probably very silly that I feel as down about it all as I do, but for whatever reason this has massively knocked my mental health. I'm on tenterhooks at work now and dread every morning walking into the office.

It's not silly at all - it's such an oppressive environment when someone is womaning around like that and expecting you to join in a validate them after every utterance. It's absolutely exhausting.

I've spent years heavily involved with the LGBT community through various professional networks (both internal and external) and have worked with lots of transwomen. Out of hundreds of professional encounters with transwomen young and old, I don't think I've ever had one where I haven't felt gaslit at some point by having to smile and agree while they tell me how our experiences as women are similar based on an outsider's perspective of what being a woman is like. Their descriptions range from sexist and offensive at worst to plain ridiculous at best, but it is utterly soul-destroying to have to pretend that they're not being sexist arseholes purely because they're trans.

One thing I sometimes do in more informal situations with trans people I know well enough is to politely ask them "isn't that bit of a regressive sexist stereotype? We're modern women, after all". The only response I've ever received to this is a blank stare and an awkward silence, and I almost expect them to say "but I'm trans", but no-one ever has.

I think it does sometimes prompt transwomen to at least be a bit more wary of using sexist stereotypes around me (probably because they're worried I'll call them out for it in front of other colleagues and then the jig will be up...). These tiny acts of resistance really helped me to cope with the bigger issues of gaslighting in the workplace, and it's my little way of feeling I'm not being completely complicit just to feed my kids.

That said, I've also left jobs over this as it becomes unbearable after a while, so I'd highly recommend that too as a longer-term plan, obviously. It's shit that you have to though.