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Original poster

Ginny - an update

1000 replies

idontknowwhattosay23 · 09/07/2023 13:02

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Froodwithatowel · 09/07/2023 18:37

Mad, isn't it?

You are forced to stand listening to a man sexually harass you with total fantasies and you have no means of defense, because anything you say rejects his fantasy. He has all the power in this situation, and you've been deprived of the normal self defense you would have against a man being a sexist arse to you in the workplace, because you speaking the truth would get you sacked.

So sorry OP, I could rage against the twats who permitted this to happen and go on enabling it. It is wicked.

Pudmyboy · 09/07/2023 18:40

JustMint · 09/07/2023 15:30

all given a warning!

This is illegal - you cannot be given a warning for something you have had no part in, this will be deemed a false allegation. Have you raised this? Was the warning verbal or in writing and is it logged with HR?

Good point for @idontknowwhattosay23 , just flagging it up for her

SideWonder · 09/07/2023 18:43

But until very recently the whole office worked wonderfully as a whole. Brilliant atmosphere and great productivity from the team, now it's just horrible.

Maybe your boos has a child who thinks s/he is trans?

Or

Men can be influenced by really "right on" children (eg Alastair Campbell) and because they're men, they've never had to deal with issues for which we need single-sex spaces etc. They have no skin in the game.

EdithStourton · 09/07/2023 18:45

Haven't RTFT and wanted to post quickly in case this thread is pulled - I was about to post last time when it went. I have wondered about you since you first posted and how things have panned out

OP, the whole story is utterly shocking and demoralising, and no wonder you are feeling crap. At least you don't have to sit next to this appalling person, but if you feel that you have been demoted, it might be worth getting advice about constructive dismissal.

On the plus side, you still have your job. It's odds-on that an over-promoted Ginny could do something really dumb.

FlowersWine

EdithStourton · 09/07/2023 18:46

And OP, I know you are desperate to rant, but please don't risk a job you need.

Pudmyboy · 09/07/2023 18:51

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2023 18:18

Thanks OP for taking the time to update us all.

I think what you have done is absolutely brilliant.

First of all you haven't let the boss and & Ginny drive you out of your paid employment which you need. And them making you apologise in public has backfired because everyone else must have know, whatever the situation you just dont do that.

Secondly you have now found some allies in you office - and although the boss thinks he has put you all on the naughtly step, in fact he has created a women's room. I hope you feel it is a safe space for ou.

Thirdly you have holiday coming up so can look forward to that and in the meantime take each day as it comes. And give yourself a treat at the end of each day.

And I am sure you will find another job.

If you feel able, yes do record and take notes.

If the colleague who taped the meeting is willing, ask for a copy of the tape.

Then at a later date, when you feel able, send it to someone like Sex Matters and ask them to then maybe write an article saying all the ways in which the Boss and Ginny were at fault.

Because as others have posted similar situation have been happening and need to be exposed. Consider yourself a trailblazer!

As to why did the boss do it? I know it must feel personal because until then it had seemed a happy and very equal work place. Who knows? Was it a vacancy that was advertised and Ginny got the job, or did they just turn up and the boss say this is Ginny who is joing the team.

I suspect the knows he got it wrong but male pride and ego means that rather than admit thinks have got a little out of hand he is going over the top in standing by his mistake.

And, it does seem that Ginny is quite expert. Seriously, turning up at a work meeting ready to record a video. How many calls and conversations were there between the Boss and Ginny for that to have happened. My head explodes just thinking about it, so really do sympathise with you as the one it has happened to.

And just to say, if you feel able to leave the thread please do.

Because, though some dont like it, FWR is a real resource for women who find themselves isolated in terrible situations like this. And it could be a comfort to read this.

Hope work stays smooth and the women's room has time for laughs until your holiday starts.

And I am not dismissing it but please dont feel you are having a mental health crisis. You are responding as anyone would to be shat on by someone you trusted, embarrased by a typical trans egotist, had your livelihood threatened and more.

You must be emotionally drained, but you have been strong and sensible.

Your children are really lucky to have you looking out for them.

This is a lovely post

Pudmyboy · 09/07/2023 18:53

zanahoria · 09/07/2023 18:04

Ah found the quote

"To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good, or else that it’s a well-considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is in the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions.
Ideology – that is what gives evil doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others’ eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors"

Brilliant, very insightful

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 09/07/2023 18:58

idontknowwhattosay23 · 09/07/2023 13:30

Does anyone want to float any ideas why this is happening though? That's what's completely stumped us, we just can't figure out why the boss is going this route.

For context, prior to Ginny starting, the boss was golden. Really approachable, fair, entertaining and made a real point of making a great atmosphere in the office. Nothing was too much trouble, ever.

It makes no economic sense, and he is running a business after all. Morale is down, output is down, people are complaining. No one makes the effort to chat away to him anymore, he's making no effort either to check in with us.

Why on earth would someone just throw away a brilliant company and team over this? He's far from stupid, he must know why the two guys are leaving, and he's staunchly not at all bothered by it.

Maybe he’s shagging Ginny?

Tinysoxx · 09/07/2023 18:59

Froodwithatowel · 09/07/2023 18:37

Mad, isn't it?

You are forced to stand listening to a man sexually harass you with total fantasies and you have no means of defense, because anything you say rejects his fantasy. He has all the power in this situation, and you've been deprived of the normal self defense you would have against a man being a sexist arse to you in the workplace, because you speaking the truth would get you sacked.

So sorry OP, I could rage against the twats who permitted this to happen and go on enabling it. It is wicked.

OP I think you should type out this 2nd paragraph and recite it at an opportune moment to the boss.

WickedSerious · 09/07/2023 19:04

Well done on keeping a straight face in the midst of that 'cheap whore' shite OP and the best of luck finding a new job.

WickedSerious · 09/07/2023 19:06

JeandeServiette · 09/07/2023 13:34

Panic? Fear?

Show quote history

Maybe he's got some dirt on the boss.

HairyKitty · 09/07/2023 19:07

If you have the stomach for it @idontknowwhattosay23 after you get a new job and your references have been taken you could ask for an exit interview and try and help boss understand what’s wrong with his response.

Original poster
idontknowwhattosay23 · 09/07/2023 19:08

I'm so floored by the support, thank you!

I can't express how crazy the whole thing made me feel. Especially early on as no one at work wanted to say anything to each other for fear of being pinned as a bigot, but over the past week, without actually saying much at all, we have all realised we are on the same page (well, those of us banished to the back office!)

Then to read comments here and see we are not the only ones who thing this whole thing is ludicrous and unfair, well it's making it bearable frankly.

To answer a couple of questions quickly before I wrestle the kids to bed:

There is no HR. It's just the boss, then us. There's not even a management structure in between. The team is small, under 20 people and is a private company started, grown and ran entirely by the owner/ boss. There's no one to complain to or flag anything with. This was something ACAS were brilliant at giving me guidance with actually.

Yes we were all put on a warning as Ginny was absolutely adamant they had not done those searches, and said someone must have been using their PC. Boss said they couldn't disprove this statement and so we would all have the GDPR refresher and a warning given. Ginny now has a Mac book with a fingerprint / Touch ID thing, paid for by the boss. The rest of us still working away on our ancient PC's. This actually caused issue because some of the software wouldn't run on the Mac and so because they couldn't access certain things, we had a large part of their workload passed to us. More interestingly, we spotted heaps of errors in the data and client handling in the files handed to us to finish. We have made note of them all, fixed them ourselves and don't feel comfortable raising it with the boss as it stands, not so soon after that hideous "meeting".

What did Ginny do with so much free time and a lighter workload? They went with the boss to face to face client briefings and pitches 🙃 something I've only seen very long standing and experienced colleagues get the opportunity to do so far. Make of that what you will.

God knows what tomorrow will bring. I never used to fear Mondays but I do now.

As it stands I'll be working in the back office again this week with the two other women. We have been told there are two new starts this week but I'm not sure which day, I'm waiting with baited breath to see how that goes.

OP posts:
HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 09/07/2023 19:08

I'm in my mid-late 30s and I have never randomly dropped into a lunch break conversation with colleagues how my knickers are riding up, or giggling as I recount a supposed incident involving a man pushing his groin against me and telling me I'm the most beautiful woman he's ever seen... ginny on the other hand, shares these daily.

I would honestly turn round and walk away without comment when they start any such conversation. They’re getting a sexual kick out of such conversations and that’s not fair on you. Keep any communication purely to work and just turn on your heel and walk off when they start with that shit.

HairyKitty · 09/07/2023 19:13

HaveYouHeardOfARoadAtlas · 09/07/2023 19:08

I'm in my mid-late 30s and I have never randomly dropped into a lunch break conversation with colleagues how my knickers are riding up, or giggling as I recount a supposed incident involving a man pushing his groin against me and telling me I'm the most beautiful woman he's ever seen... ginny on the other hand, shares these daily.

I would honestly turn round and walk away without comment when they start any such conversation. They’re getting a sexual kick out of such conversations and that’s not fair on you. Keep any communication purely to work and just turn on your heel and walk off when they start with that shit.

In any other context it would be totally obvious to all that these comments are sexual harassment. I wonder whether Ginny makes such frequent use of these tales amongst a make only audience?

Original poster
idontknowwhattosay23 · 09/07/2023 19:15

WickedSerious · 09/07/2023 19:04

Well done on keeping a straight face in the midst of that 'cheap whore' shite OP and the best of luck finding a new job.

When I leave this job, which will be ASAP, the very first thing I will be doing is finding a way to share the audio file I've been sent of the meeting. Or if they upload the video before then I will share that link quicker than Usain Bolt can run for a bus.

What really struck me was that they have only been "out" to friends and family and living as "Ginny" since January. Yet the anecdotes we were bombarded with could have filled a life time.

They are cat called every day by workmen on their way to work.

Every time they go for an evening out with friends, without fail, they are sexually harassed and approached by "very wealthy and handsome married men" but they are "not homewreckers and won't be made to feel like a cheap whore"

They have been stalked on the way home from Tesco by a man who wants to have a family with them, which is triggering because they are currently struggling with their sexuality and may be a lesbian.

Oh gosh the best one;

"You cannot possibly understand the pressure from cis women to repress my femininity because they find it intimidating" talking then about how they take hours in a morning to respectfully choose their clothes and make up as to not make any other women feel inferior or less attractive, like they're doing us a favour 🙃

This is all recorded, video and audio. And I am honestly doing my best to see if I can get this out there legally.

OP posts:
Pushmepullu · 09/07/2023 19:16

Pudmyboy · 09/07/2023 18:51

This is a lovely post

Show quote history

Agree, wise words.

Ripedoughnutpeaches · 09/07/2023 19:20

OP am so angry on your behalf. To be forced to sit and listen to this creep’s sexual fantasies - because I can all but guarantee you that no man is catcalling Ginny but this always appears to be an AGP fantasy - and listen to disgusting commentary about underwear and unwillingly dragged into period fantasies, another one these weirdos always seem to be fixated on - is fucking gross.

Take heart in the fact that Ginny and your shitty boss will soon be nothing more then a bad memory, and that your boss is not going to be able to walk away so easily. Either he eventually sacks Ginny when they finally cross the line as someone like Ginny will always do eventually and opens himself up to a word of pain as there is no fury like an AGP scorned, or he is stuck with them and their toxic drama forever. Just the two of them while Ginny ensures that no one stays more than a few months, fucks up client relationships and forces your boss to listen to their revolting fantasies even there are no women left. Sounds like a match made in heaven.

Good luck OP.

Thelnebriati · 09/07/2023 19:21

I think I would say 'Stop. Keep your comments confined to work matters.'

WickedSerious · 09/07/2023 19:21

He sounds irresistible OP, you and your colleagues must be seething with envy.

Tinysoxx · 09/07/2023 19:21

idontknowwhattosay23 · 09/07/2023 19:15

When I leave this job, which will be ASAP, the very first thing I will be doing is finding a way to share the audio file I've been sent of the meeting. Or if they upload the video before then I will share that link quicker than Usain Bolt can run for a bus.

What really struck me was that they have only been "out" to friends and family and living as "Ginny" since January. Yet the anecdotes we were bombarded with could have filled a life time.

They are cat called every day by workmen on their way to work.

Every time they go for an evening out with friends, without fail, they are sexually harassed and approached by "very wealthy and handsome married men" but they are "not homewreckers and won't be made to feel like a cheap whore"

They have been stalked on the way home from Tesco by a man who wants to have a family with them, which is triggering because they are currently struggling with their sexuality and may be a lesbian.

Oh gosh the best one;

"You cannot possibly understand the pressure from cis women to repress my femininity because they find it intimidating" talking then about how they take hours in a morning to respectfully choose their clothes and make up as to not make any other women feel inferior or less attractive, like they're doing us a favour 🙃

This is all recorded, video and audio. And I am honestly doing my best to see if I can get this out there legally.

Show quote history

I am amazed you weren’t crying laughing by the end of that.

However the ultimate naughty step would be reserved for those laughing at Ginny. So try not to.

KittyCatStevens · 09/07/2023 19:21

Oh OP those anecdote are vile. I would feel incredibly uncomfortable if any of my colleagues talked in that manner, trans or not.

Pushmepullu · 09/07/2023 19:22

idontknowwhattosay23 · 09/07/2023 19:15

When I leave this job, which will be ASAP, the very first thing I will be doing is finding a way to share the audio file I've been sent of the meeting. Or if they upload the video before then I will share that link quicker than Usain Bolt can run for a bus.

What really struck me was that they have only been "out" to friends and family and living as "Ginny" since January. Yet the anecdotes we were bombarded with could have filled a life time.

They are cat called every day by workmen on their way to work.

Every time they go for an evening out with friends, without fail, they are sexually harassed and approached by "very wealthy and handsome married men" but they are "not homewreckers and won't be made to feel like a cheap whore"

They have been stalked on the way home from Tesco by a man who wants to have a family with them, which is triggering because they are currently struggling with their sexuality and may be a lesbian.

Oh gosh the best one;

"You cannot possibly understand the pressure from cis women to repress my femininity because they find it intimidating" talking then about how they take hours in a morning to respectfully choose their clothes and make up as to not make any other women feel inferior or less attractive, like they're doing us a favour 🙃

This is all recorded, video and audio. And I am honestly doing my best to see if I can get this out there legally.

Show quote history

OP, I know it’s not funny for you to be going through this but I would have found it so difficult to not laugh out loud at this.
Building companies do not allow workers to wolf whistle or call out anymore on the pain of instant dismissal, so it’s funny that Ginny is having it happen so frequently.
You have been brave and will continue to be so, power to you.

mauvish · 09/07/2023 19:23

And there's the issue too that NO woman that I know would find it flattering or amusing to have a stranger's groin rubbed up against her.

WickedSerious · 09/07/2023 19:25

mauvish · 09/07/2023 19:23

And there's the issue too that NO woman that I know would find it flattering or amusing to have a stranger's groin rubbed up against her.

Not even if their molester told them that they were the most beautiful woman he'd ever seen.

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