Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

Am really pleased you've fed back OP & hopefully this won't be spotted. BUT - once you've vented and had some well needed support - maybe ask MNHQ to delete this? It's still very outing to anyone who knows the details & could be used against you if seen?

Panic? Fear?

By the way subjecting the rest of the workforce to agp fantasies without consent is sexual harassment.

Who knows why, OP.

Maybe he wants to be a Ginny?

Maybe he's just scared of confrontation?

Maybe he genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing?

I mean if any other bloke insisted on a whole office meeting to discuss clear fantasies about how dreadful it was that 20something girls kept groping him that would be considered sexual harassment. Why does anyone else need to know? They don't. Abusive

A boss I had years ago (who had very erratic mood swings anyway) became convinced that an extremely manipulative woman was essential to the outfit. She played him most skillfully, convinced him she was brilliant (often by taking credit for other people's work) and deliberately cut out from the herd anyone she thought was a threat to her dominance - which generally meant people who were good that their jobs. It sounds as though you may have been seen as a threat and cut out accordingly.

There will be a happy working life after all this.

I agree so much with the people advising you to document everything - with luck you will only need to read it to remind yourself of what went down, but that will be useful too.

tldr: narcissists are good at getting their own way

Just look at all the companies captured by Stonewall's protection racket? All forded to remove the words woman & mother from maternity policies, install mixed sex toilets & changing rooms, mangle language etc? Garden Court Chambers (barristers) even ended up in court because they listened to Stonewall demands and discriminated agains a black lesbian barrister (Allison Bailey case)!.
People lose their professionalism and integrity in the face of all this complete madness - why I've no idea but your company is not alone.

I've ruminated on it for over a week and wasn't going to post at all. But, for whatever reason this whole situation has really depressed me. I've never dreaded going into work before and I'm actively looking for a new job. I suppose I've stopped caring because I couldn't feel any worse even if I am outed! Nothing I have shared is untrue, sadly. They'd not be able to disagree with anything I've shared as it's all fact. Other than my personal opinion that Ginny doesn't pass, I suppose. You're very kind for caring though, I appreciate you ❤️

Separate question. The team "meeting" was audio recorded by another colleague, do they need the permission of everyone who was at that meeting to be able to share it?

Lots of men seem like good guys until it becomes a “women vs men” scenario. And for all his right on bluster, he will inevitably still perceive your colleague as a man.
So many “good guys” I know revert to “Karen /harridan/ prude” thinking when confronted with this issue. I’m not saying that’s definitely what is happening with your boss, but it does seem to be a pattern.

OP, so relieved to hear from you - I have been thinking of you since the meeting was due to happen.

Appalling behaviour by the boss/es - the upside of that meeting is that the toxicity was paraded for all to see. There will be a backlash.

Do not beat yourself up about the apology. What could you do?

The advice to document all this is detail is good - for reflection and to make an account of the truth material - but also in case, in due course, you wish to claim constructive dismissal.

Other employment law people will know better than me, but the whole point of the constructive dismissal route is for people who feel they had no option but to resign over bad practices in the workplace. There is no way you should have been ambushed and exposed in a public meeting like that. Or been asked to 'apologise' in public.

It's like a scene from The Crucible.

In fact I would call ACAS and ask their advice. And about timing, finding a new job, and getting a reference.

I wish you the very best of luck finding a new job.

And when you do get a new job, why not get signed off with stress while you work your notice? Given the way this makes you feel about going in.

You Are Not Wrong. Please take care of yourself.

And actually, I would get this thread deleted.

But than you for letting us know.

If the boss is a decent guy then perhaps he has been suckered by all the trans rights stuff and does not see how it effects female staff.

Perhaps he is proud of his reputation as a decent boss and reacts to being questioned on it.

If you want to delete this OP it's up to you but there is nothing 'transphobic' at all, just factual and a description of how you and your colleagues are being forced to be unconsenting props in someone else's fetish or at the very least encouraging and enabling a mental health crisis. Either way not acceptable of management to force this on you. They can support the individual without subjecting their staff to this. Highly inappropriate. If they had an employee who believed they were Jesus / the pope would they expect you to play along with that too?

Not sure about the legality of it but that's gold dust OP. Make sure you get a copy & transcribe it - it's the record that you may need if this goes badly for you. Being asked in the workplace to publicly apologise for what you said (while on the loo to a man who had entered) said must breach some sort of dignity at work / employment policy?

Op, was everyone asked at the start of the ‘meeting’ for their permission to record and store it? Were they doing it for the company, or for their own agenda?

Oh, and P.S - nick as much of the Sanitary Products as possible.

Good heavens. Missed that thread. Thumbs firmly pressed for you - that sounds like a complete shit show.

It could be any number of reasons, OP.

My last relationship - I'd have always described the bloke as being incredibly reasonable and not at all a misogynist. Until... one day we had a conversation about trans related issues and because I didn't fall in line with his beliefs: trans women are women, it's fine for kids to be taught all sorts of sexual things from a really young age, if a biological male is going to rape then he will do so, and so us women should just let anyone who says they are a woman in the loo's and changing rooms... etc etc. I was stunned, but willing to have an adult discussion. He, however, decided he couldn't handle it and ghosted me which in hindsight gave me some very important time to think, and when he returned from his ghosting from his hiatus I told him it was over. I never really got to the bottom of why someone seemingly so reasonable could become part of what to me feels like a cult, but it does seem that a number of people just end up falling down a bizarre rabbit hole. Personally, it reminds me a little of how QAnon exploded during the pandemic - in terms of the cult like recruitment that seems to happen online.

It could be that your boss is also AGP.
Or maybe they have a close family member or friend who is trans and this has had an effect.
Maybe it's true love!

The irony is the OP purchased the sanitary products for her and other women in the workplace!

Oh yes brilliant point! I forgot to mention ACAS we're very very helpful. I was a bit thrown because initially I was die to have a meeting just myself, the boss and Ginny and got brilliant advice on why that couldn't happen from ACAS, so I was fully prepared to fight my corner on that. But when I arrived we were told it was a whole office meeting and I didn't know where I stood after that! But I will be in touch with them again about going forward.

Myself and another woman are actively documenting everything as we go along. There have been two other incidents in the past week alone (didn't involve me directly) that are a concern and I believe both colleagues are deciding what to do about it and making plans to take action of some sort, but what exactly I don't know yet.

Another person in the team had recorded the meeting when it took place, only audio but it's a very interesting listen even for me listening to it again and I was there at the time. So many things don't add up and some things are blatant AGP fantasy. But I'm very wary of the legality of the recording and know they need to tread carefully.

The team "meeting" was audio recorded by another colleague, do they need the permission of everyone who was at that meeting to be able to share it?

AFAIK if they asked for permission to record, then no. The meeting was recorded. Its the purpose the recording is put to that could cause problems - for example, it shouldn't be shared on social media.

Yep, once you've got another job, clean it out and donate to the local food bank. If any questions tell them you have terrible flooding. If it was me I'd be going into graphic detail about the lived reality of menstruation for many women particularly in perimenopause.......

So many on here have written what I would have said, so I won’t repeat it all.

Please don’t feel bad for having to apologise. Sometimes we have to do things to keep life ticking along. In this case you know it is all about the Emperor’s new truth and indeed clothes.

Good luck in your job hunt. 🌻

Its good to hear ACAS were supportive,

OP, I'm sorry. It sounds like a horrible situation. Rest assured you did / said nothing wrong.

I hope you find a better job soon.

And, when you leave, please don't take the sanitary supplies to be spiteful. This hurts the other women who contributed to buy those products.