Archbishop of Canterbury - cut University funding if trans people insulted

[redfacebigdisgrace]

Wow. Equating it with anti semitism. Loved the thoughtful “whatever”. There says the privileged man.

Archbishop of Canterbury: Cut university funding if students insulted

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ff59e248-1c6a-11ee-8198-bf96b6365670?shareToken=8c12ffb262fd2ec2ecb0e23f02b1f7b5

Medevil ?

all Christian all called to do tithing of your able we tith £10 a month we have a church app

it pays for the following the worship team

supplies for the Sunday school

a 10 camp for the teens

we a soup kitchen at our other church

we also run savages and saints for men if your having a interview you can book a session with one of the male volunteers they will rent you a suit for free teach you how to tie your tie we serval hairdressers you get a free hair cut and a mock interview to prepare 🤷🏿‍♂️

we also have a community fridge

so not sure how tithing is medieval if Christians see a need and we are able we should fill that need because we are in the world and not of it we don’t wait for the council or government to act

and as for going to hell if you don’t follow the bible it’s a bit more complicated than that but we do believe as do Muslims and Jews there are consequences for not following the bible 🤷🏿‍♂️

GAFCON cover 80% of anglicans

so I would say he’s been removed if I said to you at work 80% of the staff have lost confidence in your leadership you have been sacked effectively 🤷🏿‍♂️

They make up part of the membership of a group called the Global South Fellowship of Anglican Churches (GSFA), which claims to represent 75% of Anglicans around world, particularly across Asia and Africa.
The signatories include the GSFA's chair, Archbishop Justin Badi of South Sudan, along with the archbishops of Chile, the Indian Ocean, Congo, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Uganda, Sudan, Alexandria and Melanesia.
In a statement on Monday they said they are "no longer able to recognise the present Archbishop of Canterbury as the first among equals leader of the global communion".
"The Church of England has chosen to break communion with those provinces who remain faithful to the historic biblical faith," the statement said.

the majority of anglicans are not in the uk or the angloshpere the attitude the bishops have is just some Africans complaining is why he’s no longer the 1st among equals

@Thatgirl1981 I see where you're coming from now.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to worship at Canterbury Cathedral? It's very different to local churches and it's supposed to be very different.

The fact that the CofE is a 'broad church' which doesn't insist on belief is probably why we still tolerate it being the state church. Its declining membership is heavily propped up by parents going to sign the register so they can get their kid into a school. If it's too out of sync with normal humane 21st century values (equality for women and gay people etc) then its position in this country will become untenable. Which may ultimately be a good thing, but then it'll be just another minority belief system plus expensive historic buildings.

We’re have you got this from the evangelist church the Catholic Church
seven day Adventist
Jehovah wintness even the Latter Day Saints every donoamtion is growing
if you have ever been a church of any other sect they are standing room only
you wouldn’t get a seat if you were five minutes late at a seven day Adventist

or and evangelical church 🤷🏿‍♂️
the statement at the end with all due respect is somone who is not of faith very clearly

one of the key tenants of Christianity is to be
IN THE WORLD not of it
we should not be concerned with the culture but the bible
and we are expect to be hated but are happy when not but we do expect it

if you are bending your beliefs to fit the culture you are not reading the bible

you cannot be a Christian and woke our views are not taken from the social wims of the woke of the day

they are rooted in the biblical teachings

they are taking on this stance to be tolerated they are believe in it
they are more woke than Owen jones when i here people talk about right wing Christianity I really chuckle 🤭 they haven’t moved to the left they are futher left than most people in the uk that are not even religious hence a transgender Chaplin draping the trans flag in the prayer room were parents who’s children are dying we’re trying to pray
their doctrine is no longer the bible

I leave this one here who think that the church is being strong armed somehow https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/07/calling-god-father-problematic-archbishop-york-gender/Calling God 'our Father' is problematic, says Archbishop of York

we have here true believers just not in the bible

Sorry to say it again, but if you give untrue facts it weakens your argument.

The Roman Catholic Church in the UK isn't growing, it's rapidly declining (the only reason their churches look fuller is that they have the same number of members as the C of E, but spread across far fewer churches). And the Catholics have a massive crisis of recruiting new priests, which the C of E doesn't.

Similarly, JWs in the UK are not growing. As a percentage of UK population they are declining (despite all their mission efforts).

The younger RC people go to the extraordinary mass and the numbers are growing, the boomers and dregs from other generations go to the ordinary mass and their numbers are dwindling.

The hippy boomer church that was given a makeover in the 1960s isn't popular. They can't get priests or bums on seats globally.

the statement at the end with all due respect is somone who is not of faith very clearly

Glad that's clear, I'm an atheist. That (and general agnosticism/apatheism) is the section of the population which is steadily growing, according to all the surveys and census data over the years.
I have many criticisms of the CofE and its continuing disproportionately large place in our society, but its broadness and gradual acceptance (albeit usually decades slow) of humane values is what makes it vaguely tolerable.

To be fair to the man, he's right: no one should be harassed and insulted for being trans.

I expect this is not an issuec he follows closely enough to know what is really happening, and has just put in a throwaway comment in his speech about a broader issue. Most people assume trans people are being harassed because that's what the media has told them for the last few years. I had to explain to someone recently who'd read that the GC movement "wants trans people to stop existing" that it simply meant GC people don't believe in trans people's opposite sex identity.

This was not a pro-trans speech and I dont think the Times should have seized on this, it looks like he's being taken out of context.

I don't think you should cite figures from Gafcon where decisions are only those of clergy and not, to quote, "the common people".

And following the bible - are these people going out to not "suffer a witch to live", or seeking out the last descendants of the Amelakites? I think not. Cherry picking.

I absolutely agree, no one trans should be harassed and insulted for being trans. No one should be harassed and insulted at universities either for wanting their own identity, equality and access needs met as well as trans peoples, even if a TQ+ political group feels they shouldn't be.

That's the context of the debate, and the context of this particular man, who has intentionally used his position to further the TQ+ ideology at the expense of women's rights and equality and child safeguarding. I don't think he is just accidentally being misquoted or represented as holding views he doesn't hold.

This is my point. Yes. So Welby has a balancing act that preserves the Church as an entity, not necessarily as a Christian body foremost although I'm sure it's also his concern, but he probably has a far more flexible vision of where christian doctrine applies in everyday life and likely thinks as long as the symbols are there, it is enough.

It's a hard balance to maintain. It's about survival of the CoE in its current position. Not current form.

@Thatgirl1981

We’re have you got this from the evangelist church the Catholic Church
seven day Adventist
Jehovah wintness even the Latter Day Saints every donoamtion is growing
if you have ever been a church of any other sect they are standing room only
you wouldn’t get a seat if you were five minutes late at a seven day Adventist
^^
or and evangelical church

Perhaps you have this impression from where you live. Where I live in S.E London this would seem to appear to be broadly true. On a sunday the roads are chock-full of cars and the supermarket is inundated with people dressed in sunday best grabbing something to eat or cook for sunday dinner as they exit their various churches. Mostly it's people from ethnic minorities. So there may appear to be regional growth. But it is false. Go out to less urban areas and I doubt the same atmosphere of busy religiosity prevails.

In terms of global growth, I have read these dominations are growing but again, if so, it is likely to be in countries where many ethnic people live. I'm not sure many religions are growing in the West where post-modernism has frankly strangled religion.

Let's remember where we are now. We exist in a social atmosphere where the self and excessive naval gazing is the order of the day along with an emphasis on individualism and rights of the self. We are even throwing out rights towards children, for children to be safe and kept away from sexual abuse. Now it's all about 'displaying my kink in front of the kids and if you disagree with my right to do that, then you are a bigot'. Same with women. No responsibility towards women to help them feel safe. Now it's 'you'll wax my balls for me, and let me enter your spa's naked or I'll take you to court'.

Most religions teach that the individual should be subservient to a 'greater good' whatever that greater good is, usually it encompasses ones neighbour and wider society within the concept, along with a traditional idea of morality in which self-examination and self-denial are crucial elements. The self comes last on the list in most religious and even ascetic philosophical creeds.

With this in mind, do you really expect @Thatgirl1981 for any religion to really be growing in Western society as a whole? You are naive.

I suspect Welby isn't naive though and knows this only too well. He knows he has to be as inclusive (in the negative sense) as possible for the CoE to survive and I tell you the status of all the other religions in this country also hinge on what happens in the CoE. It is the stabiliser state church. So if you're religious, even if you disagree with him, you ought to respect the balance he is trying to maintain whether you're CoE or whether you're a Pentecostal or a even a pagan or a hindu. As I said, he is under huge pressure from certain forces who actually think the CoE isn't liberal enough, unbelievable as that seems.

I've long suspected that many Anglicans are not really people of Christian faith. They are more like secular humanists who are using christian symbolism and liturgy as an available form form of clothing for thei high minded sentiments.

Rishi Sunak's reading at the coronation of Charles 111 was far more profound and moving than Whelby's. He was actually inhabiting the words, not just reading them in a 'poetry reading voice' like Whelby - whose speech was consequently boring and lacking in spirit.

I think this is a really good description of where many people stand.

I'm not sure it's really sustainable though. Christian humanism, arguably, is. Secular humanism however doesn't seem to inspire people to do the work necessary to maintain the institutions, on the practical side.

And theoretically, it's actually far less rooted theologically or philosophically than traditional forms of Christianity. It really is the faith based belief that people accuse Christians of holding, and it's really no wonder that the people who think that way are very vulnerable to things like gender ideology or wokism.

It really won’t

this is exactly like the bud light saga.

they try to speak to people who don’t go to church they fail as a feminist humanist lesbian who is pro trans isn’t going to start going to church they upset actual Christians 🤷🏿‍♂️
who here that is not a Christian will start their journey of faith because Wellby has not allowed human composting

We can't even get our local Anglican vicar to turn up for funerals. At this point, pretty much everyone who has dealings with the CoE in our area openly says it is now just an investment bank with some bibles attached.

I know this is an old thread. I'm just coming on to announce that I am done, I am so pissed off with the privileged Justin Welby and his ill informed comments that I no longer consider myself Christian, and I won't be attending my local church in Havering anymore. And although my family tell me that Justin is head of the church but that shouldn't affect my Christianity, I cannot disassociate him with my religion. His pushing of trans ideology and recent rejection of Christian women's groups urging him to rethink his position (and guidance) on affirming trans children, and stating that Christian schools should affirm children as young as 4 and support their gender identity...it is the final straw. So fuck of church, I am done.

Yes. Welby, just another old Etonian with misogyny inculcated by the English public school system along with general warping of moral and ethical sensibility. Nothing unusual in that.

We really should be 'done' with all that by now, indeed. I don't advise holding breath, however.

This is why I'm glad to be Orthodox. You won't catch Patriarch Nikitas Loulias talking like he's a blue-haired adolescent activist on Twitter. He pronounces on matters of theology and faith.

Seriously Welby doesn't seem to understand what religion is for? Those of us who choose to follow a faith do so because we want to look beyond the minutiae and everyday quarrels and focus on a bigger, more timeless and ultimately, more fundamental picture. And then he wonders why Chirch of England has no followers anymore.

Sigh, so sick of the sky fairy shit. It's not funny or clever and is a traducement of the beliefs of millions of people of different religions around the world. I'm not a Christian but it would have been nice to see his opinions discussed here without devolving into the usual drive-by takedowns of religion by people who think that using silly little soundbites makes them a clever enlightened empiricist and not just a bit of a prick.

I'd forgotten this thread...reading the title made me think, hm, how about religious organisations forgo their massive tax breaks, have to pay rates etc like other clubs, if they systematically discriminate against gay and lesbian people, and women?