Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

[OnePotPolly]

Transmen who want us all to accept that they are actual men. But they are a subset of men who can give birth to babies..
Which only women can do, in fact.

And still claim that they are men. After giving birth to babies. From their wombs.

And the presenter on R4 is actually going with it. And sympathising with the person that obviously men can give birth. Or is he just presenting it so that the audience can draw their own conclusions?

Whatever it is, it is winding me up no end. I have listened to R4 for the past 50 years - 50 YEARS!! every night without fail, while I potter about in the kitchen, tidying up and popping a bit of baking in the oven. I love radio 4, it has seen me through many traumas. Divorce, death of parents, death of sibling, permanently life altering illness of my child. Radio 4 has always been there as a stalwart support. A reality check. Reassurance that the rest of the world continues as normal - ordinary, normal even if it's bad news or a war between foreign nations. Right up to 1am and "Sailing By"

I love Sailing By. I find it, at the same time, both soothing and sad (because it's a reminder of times past)

But the shite that I've just listened to has totally wrecked it for me.
What a load of utter bollocks they have just allowed on air.

Unless they're just airing it to show how ludicrous and self absorbed some people can be. . . . .

Really hope that's what it turns out to be.

Oh I’m just here to talk about the BBC / R4 and share some stuff I found interesting about non-birthing people lactating. I’m not getting dragged into the vipers nest of MN trans chat, thanks all the same

Agreed! People make themselves mad by engaging on Twitter and online culture war nonsense. I know many amazing trans people and yes can confirm vast majority are normal people, plenty happy with not surgically/hormonally altering their body too.
We are used to random online hate, I honestly just get on with my life and keep out of it because at the end of the day it doesn't really matter what Brenda down the road thinks, I just focus on my life.
There's so much more I could say on this but I accept people will disagree with my POV etc, plus free speech is vital so everyone is free to believe what they will. I don't expect the world's beliefs to mirror mine which is why it does make me eyeroll when I see people moaning about a radio programme... just turn it off... anyway

@Bingbangbongbash

People who believe the guardian is balanced do so because they don't engage in wiser thought it was reading.

To keep young and mentally agile it's imperative to get out of our comfort zones and be challenged without bringing our bias along.

In other simpler terms, remain open minded and question everything. If of course it's knowledge one seeks.

I don’t really see why you’re getting all upset. I was taking the piss out of someone because they presented a fallacious argument. I apologised because it wasn’t kind. I also refuted the notion that someone had about me thinking only thick people read the right wing press by saying I personally know many clever, well-educated people that read it. And now you’re suggesting I have some personal issue with people of lesser education? Not at all. I think you might be projecting. In the course of my job, I spend lots of time with people of all walks of life. Usually we rub along just fine, thanks for asking.

I did have to tell someone to fuck off when they started telling me how my sort had ruined the country, but it was only the once.

Of course. Well, aren't we lucky the lucky ones to have the benefit of your superior intellect available to put us right when we go wrong, eh?

By the way, you give yourself away with the phrase 'non-birthing people'. 'Non-mothers / men lactating' would be clearer.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and entirely unbiased view of the second most read newspaper in the country. I really appreciate it.

Exactly this.

I don’t really see why you’re getting all upset. I was taking the piss out of someone because they presented a fallacious argument. I apologised because it wasn’t kind. I also refuted the notion that someone had about me thinking only thick people read the right wing press by saying I personally know many clever, well-educated people that read it. And now you’re suggesting I have some personal issue with people of lesser education? Not at all. I think you might be projecting. In the course of my job, I spend lots of time with people of all walks of life. Usually we rub along just fine, thanks for asking.

I did have to tell someone to fuck off when they started telling me how my sort had ruined the country, but it was only the once.

Is that you, Jolyon? I'm surprised you aren't having to tell people to fuck off several times a day, frankly.

Pravda /the truth...had a wide readership in soviet society.

It doesn't mean anything.

Is he the guy that bashed the fox?

I used to be an avid fan, I can't deal with it anymore either I feel like I am being gaslighted and I had enough of that with my ex thanks.

Agreed. I refer you to the most read paper: the Mail

I lose track of who's what in these discussions, so this is a woman living as a man (with another man or another woman living as I don't know what) who actually had a baby I assume by stopping taking the hormones that helped her live as a man (I assume she hadn't had physical alterations that would make it virtually impossible). But she still considers herself a man, but just a man that can have babies (with a bit of help from hormones). I guess if she really feels she is a man I sort of get what she is saying, convoluted though it is. But I would assume the number of people who would really think and live like that would be vanishingly small. And none of it makes her a biological male, just in her mind she's a man and she's reconciling the ability to have babies with her feelings of being male.

Totally agree. I heard an opinion on a radio programme that I really disagreed with. So I stopped listening to radio. That will show them.

I was taking the piss out of someone

How lovely for us that you take the time.

Have you just joined from Twitter? Going by the tweet mention.

*Why on earth are people so personally invested in the way other people choose to live? It’s no-one’s business except those involved.

Except that it absolutely is everyone's business when trans identifying people want to access to opposite sex spaces and services, to appropriate sex specific language, to breastfeed infants without adequate safety data or safeguarding, to tell impressionable children and teens they could be 'born in the wrong body'.

I can't believe this still needs to be pointed out. Are people living under rocks?

Anyway, listener figures for radio 4 are falling off a cliff. It's toast.

Yep I think that is why I no longer tune in. They are trying to induce mass depression and guilt in a listenership who used to switch on for comfort and familiarity (Archers, Sailing By, Sorry I Haven't Got A Clue, Just A Minute etc)

Everyone seems to be forgetting about validation. If trans people were just living their own lives, they wouldn’t be demanding compulsory pronoun use, and the demand that the words that come out of our mouths about their sex don’t match the truth in our heads about who we are looking at. They are forcing everyone else to participate in their fantasy. It’s particularly egregious when this is pushed on young children who don’t have the maturity, life experience and reasoning skills to understand, but instinctively know a male and a female through all the instinctive knowledge with which evolution has pre programmed our brains. It’s also egregious and abusive in the courtroom, where female victims are forced to address their male attackers with female pronouns - essentially forced by the court to lie under oath.

I’ve already apologised for that. so move on. You’re not exactly showing the best side of yourself right now, so we all occasionally get the tone wrong, don’t we?

The tweet ref was a way of saying ‘it doesn’t matter if it was a short post, or a character limited tweet, or a haiku, if still needs to be factually accurate because truth matters’.

I don’t get why you’re so angry at me. Do you need some flowers? 💐

I’m not angry at all.

Your post was referring to me so I picked up on it.

You seem really angry.

Umm.. ok

I’m not though.

Good! I’m happy for you. 😊