Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

[OnePotPolly]

Transmen who want us all to accept that they are actual men. But they are a subset of men who can give birth to babies..
Which only women can do, in fact.

And still claim that they are men. After giving birth to babies. From their wombs.

And the presenter on R4 is actually going with it. And sympathising with the person that obviously men can give birth. Or is he just presenting it so that the audience can draw their own conclusions?

Whatever it is, it is winding me up no end. I have listened to R4 for the past 50 years - 50 YEARS!! every night without fail, while I potter about in the kitchen, tidying up and popping a bit of baking in the oven. I love radio 4, it has seen me through many traumas. Divorce, death of parents, death of sibling, permanently life altering illness of my child. Radio 4 has always been there as a stalwart support. A reality check. Reassurance that the rest of the world continues as normal - ordinary, normal even if it's bad news or a war between foreign nations. Right up to 1am and "Sailing By"

I love Sailing By. I find it, at the same time, both soothing and sad (because it's a reminder of times past)

But the shite that I've just listened to has totally wrecked it for me.
What a load of utter bollocks they have just allowed on air.

Unless they're just airing it to show how ludicrous and self absorbed some people can be. . . . .

Really hope that's what it turns out to be.

Maybe other peoples' ordinary and normal have nothing to do with you.

I haven't heard that episode in the Rylan series but I think the point was to explore different ways of being a man. The first interview was with Hamza Yassin who clearly has very different ideas to Freddie. I think Rylan wanted his interviewees to talk freely and so the approach was less combative than on e.g. Hard Talk. I have no doubt Freddie would not have agreed to be interviewed by Stephen Shakur. Freddie usually likes no debate.

Maybe the series would have worked better had it been broadcast at a different time. I love R4 and like a more relaxing type of programme at that time but I think Rylan has done a great job. R4 has got better at making sure there is a more balanced view than it did a few years ago when it was much more one sided.

@seahors

Have you ever been pregnant?
There are so many rules and judgements over what medication and even food and drink you are allowed to take. I suffered through more than one pregnancy with various things, toothache which couldn't be treated, a chest infection was refused antibiotics or anything to relieve the cough until I broke a rib. I can't take ibuprofen anyway, but couldn't even take paracetamol for a sprained ankle. Or even have a couple of cups of coffee or a glass of wine.
Yet, it's OK for transmen to take untested hormones during pregnancy or leading up to pregnancy.

It's OK for transwomen to use a cocktail of hormones to try to induce breastmilk - which is all about the transwoman and of no benefit to the baby. I struggled to breastfeed, but there was no suggestion of any medication to help me produce milk and I would never have considered it, as my primary thoughts were the well being of my child.

I'm menopausal now, would really benefit from testosterone supplementation, but it is heavily restricted, yet it is apparently OK for an unborn child.

I've always detested R4 though, so at least it's not something else to lose!

R4 has got better at making sure there is a more balanced view than it did a few years ago when it was much more one sided.

I’m not sure I agree with that. I’ve listened to R4 (and R5) for years and find it depressingly one sided most of the time.

Particularly, but far from exclusively, when they trot out their “Identity” correspondent who has yet, to date, managed to present anything close to a ‘neutral’ statement of facts around GC / ‘Trans’ talking points.

I can roll my eyes at and ignore the constant efforts to shoehorn this crap into the drama schedule (eg the Archers), but can’t stand how they’ve embedded it into the (what is supposed to be) ‘factual’ content too.

This is such a good point. There's so much 'normal stuff' you should avoid in pregnancy, without medical fuck ups like thalidomide. This is going to be a disaster.

I've been pregnant, several times. I was allowed paracetamol. Nothing stronger but I was prescribed some strong sleeping tablets between the end of my first and start of my second trimesters. During subsequent pregnancies i was also cleared to continue taking a medication they decided I was better continuing despite the risks, because of what could happen to me, never mind my child, if I hadn't taken it.

For a transman to become pregnant and safely carry and birth a baby, its no light matter, everything is carefully monitored, he preps in advance by stopping testosterone and it's really not taken lightly. Testosterone isn't taken during the pregnancy at all. Neither is it, if he will be feeding the baby himself.

Many transmen and transmasculine non binary people have hysterectomies if they aren't (or aren't likely to ever) having full lower surgery. Others don't have it done but don't want children, or don't want to be the person who carries children.

But for the number of transmen who can, or who wish to carry themselves for whichever reason, good on them - they'll have more monitoring than others, in some cases, to ensure things are safe.

We really should be leaving adults to live their own lives, how they choose.

Many transmen and transmasculine non binary people have hysterectomies if they aren't (or aren't likely to ever) having full lower surgery.

Please say this is not true!

They will be in menopause at a very young age.

That is scandelous.

^scandalous

Slightly off topic, but just thought I'd Google paracetamol and pregnancy. Apparently it is reasonably fine. I was told by the GP and dentist that it was an absolute no, even had a pharmacist refuse to sell it to me. I did eventually get cideine for the broken rib, but remember the tears of pain with toothache.
Didn't have a community midwife (long story), but feel a little bit hard done by, even though my pregnancies were years ago!

Toseland
I don't believe this stuff. How could you be so dysphoric you had a baby?! What utter rubbish. And don't get me started on the Thames water bloke who reckons he's breastfeeding - grrrrrr - we can see your sexual fetish, you should be arrested!

Disgusting attitude. I suppose you think all gay men are pedophiles, too, or do you just think using the exact same language is a coincidence? More believable that this is a projection of your own disturbing sexual breastfeeding fetish 🤮 or maybe it's immoral and vile to pass horrific judgements about strangers?

Give over. Stop with the attempts to shame us.

Do please answer how someone SO uncomfortable with being a woman that a female pronoun is an act of violence can be ok with the overtly female act of being pregnant and giving birth.

As for the breastfeeding fetish, either you're genuinely naive about it, which I doubt given your username, or you are simply trying to DARVO. The problem for you is that we didn't invent the fetish. There are trans women online talking about it.

But even if that one person doesn't have a fetish, do please explain why when women are told that what they eat the baby eats, are judged for drinking a can of Coke or coffee or a single glass of wine when breastfeeding, are not supposed to be stressed or depressed because that impacts milk quality, that it's ok for a biological male to put non-nourishing bodily excretions laced with hormones into a baby's body?

If trans women are women then they most definitely should be feeling societal judgement for doing that. No biological woman would get away with doing something similar. In fact there's a high likelihood she'd be investigated by social services/reported to the police if she did.

All of you here spending your days posting incessantly about what others choose to do with their bodies... If I were to pass judgements about a woman taking the pill it would be none if my business, but it's okay when you do it? I fear for your children growing up amongst such hate filled individuals

Nae worries mate. Most people manage well enough. MN is just a sounding board for opinions. I doubt anybody takes advice to heart, or home with them.

It's just a forum where you can garner opinions.
Most folks are harsher on here than they would be in real life.
Most balanced posters can figure that out.

However, if you get a 97% judgement of BU then you really have to consider that it might very well be you. Innit.

All of you here spending your days posting incessantly about what others choose to do with their bodies...

THIS thread was at least as much about what’s being done to the innocent (and completely lacking in agency) babies caught up in the aftermath of what “others choose to do with their bodies.”

Men artificially inducing lactation, and forcing the resultant product on their infants, is not something anyone should be celebrating. Even TRA cheerleaders don’t (because they can’t) make the claim that it’s good for the baby.

The milk isn’t produced in enough quantity, doesn’t adapt to the child’s immunity needs and needs to be forced into production by the use of drugs and manipulation.

Men ‘feeding’ their baby is about pandering to their dysphoria (at best).

I’ve listened to R4 for over 45 years and find it depressingly one sided most of the time. I’ve stopped listening to the station now and this confirms for me that I’ve made the right decision.

I’m a fairly androgynous woman and have often been called an ‘egg’ by these people. It’s all very insulting and just feels like them pushing regressive sexist stereotypes as apparently I have internalised transphobia for accepting that I’m just a woman who wears unisex clothes, no makeup, and is stereotypically masculine in behaviour and hobbies.

I stopped listening to R4 about a year ago, it was my go to when mooching about the kitchen.
The whole of the BBC is now lost to me, ironic given I used to work there.
Yesterday I cancelled my TV licence and am now exclusively on apps, firestick and vpn.
I will not be fed the TRA drivel the MSM is spouting and listen to a diversity of opinion elsewhere.

I’m a fairly androgynous woman and have often been called an ‘egg’ by these people.

Oh God, what fresh hell is this? What is an egg? A "budding transman-to-be?" So fucking insulting.

It’s similar to when people are accused of being ‘closeted’. Nothing more patronising tbh.

This is all bollocks & would have made my blood boil. I believe it's a mental illness, all of it. These people need professional help, not air time dedicated to feeding & supporting the bollocks.
Biology doesn't lie, of course only women can give birth. I don't understand how suggesting that any other sex can give birth is even contemplated?

This is a depressing, hate-filled thread. Sounds like you all need to switch Radio 4 off and go back to reading the Daily Mail, with GB News on in the background.

Quelled surprise that it was Freddie on the grift again

only women can give birth - Freddie is a woman not a man.

and if only it were the case that Freddie wanted to live and let live but that it wasn’t what Freddie wants. It’s Freddie & co who are behind the whole push to get the words mother out of maternity policies, replace pregnant women with pregnant people or birthing person & replace breast feeding with chest feeding.

its not enough for Freddie to do whatever they want but they want everyone else to affirm it, change their language & deny reality to support them too. No

Instead of being scolded on here, why not come over to the dark side

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights

We are still scolded but we have great rebuttals.