Radio 4. Right now. Is freaking me out.

[OnePotPolly]

Transmen who want us all to accept that they are actual men. But they are a subset of men who can give birth to babies..
Which only women can do, in fact.

And still claim that they are men. After giving birth to babies. From their wombs.

And the presenter on R4 is actually going with it. And sympathising with the person that obviously men can give birth. Or is he just presenting it so that the audience can draw their own conclusions?

Whatever it is, it is winding me up no end. I have listened to R4 for the past 50 years - 50 YEARS!! every night without fail, while I potter about in the kitchen, tidying up and popping a bit of baking in the oven. I love radio 4, it has seen me through many traumas. Divorce, death of parents, death of sibling, permanently life altering illness of my child. Radio 4 has always been there as a stalwart support. A reality check. Reassurance that the rest of the world continues as normal - ordinary, normal even if it's bad news or a war between foreign nations. Right up to 1am and "Sailing By"

I love Sailing By. I find it, at the same time, both soothing and sad (because it's a reminder of times past)

But the shite that I've just listened to has totally wrecked it for me.
What a load of utter bollocks they have just allowed on air.

Unless they're just airing it to show how ludicrous and self absorbed some people can be. . . . .

Really hope that's what it turns out to be.

In some cases, when they want to, yes. Not sure how common it is, but it happens. There have also been cases where adoptive mums induce lactation. Have a google. It’s really interesting.

Totally agree re World Service. It used to be a bit stilted and formal yet very reassuring somehow - and I'm an Irish republican. I always imagined some patrician old guy in a suit and tie reading the shipping forecast.

But I tuned in recently on satellite TV because R4 was so annoying. Felt like a children's party was in full swing. Multiple presenters with Mockney accents gibbering away. I mean if I wanted that I'd tune into one of the pop stations.

Tariff Ali said once a new station is needed for serious content. He thought it could be a subscription service l? Maybe a good idea now

Why didn’t his wife have a baby? If you want to break gender norms do so but having a baby is the most womanly thing you can possibly do, don’t make me pretend you’re a man after you’ve given birth.

Do you think women who have never had a baby are less womanly than those who have?

Honestly not on a high, I just take exception to what you’re saying because there’s no evidence. You have presented your opinion as fact, and it’s not. Of course it doesn’t matter what I think of you; you are a faceless, nameless person on the internet. But it does matter to me that I correct fallacious arguments because unfettered, they become gospel, and that’s when we have problems. I’m sorry for taking the piss in my PP, that wasn’t kind.

It was a short post. It’s not an academic paper.

Yes I think the more committed stay with The Guardian, and it has changed over time.

I’m just not one of those people now, although I used to be.

Why on earth are people so personally invested in the way other people choose to live? It’s no-one’s business except those involved. I’d respectfully suggest that the OP gets a life.

Good point. It does explain the popularity of the Mail and the Metro, so it’s possibly true all round.

of course, the Guardian did have a massive increase in paid subs / donations in 2021 - something like a 60% increase in paid readership. I wonder if that’s a trend that will continue.

I also used to be a Radio 4 Addict since my teens but for the last 10 years have listened less and less, as every time I switch it on, it will say something profoundly annoying (ultra woke basically) and I find myself saying 'Alexa Stop'.
There was a period also when Woman's Hour annoyed me because of how many times they said the word 'woman/women' in a single programme. Little did I know that I would now be grateful if the presenters were actually able to define a real biological woman with any confidence.
The tipping point for me was when 'they came for Jenni Murray' because she correctly stated that TWA not W. I think the rot had set in even earlier though.
I also used to get my news headlines from Radio 4 but these days I have already read what I need on line. It used to be from the BBC but now it is increasingly is from a broadsheet newspaper subscription as I have realised that the BBC is promoting a biased Stonewall TQ+ led agenda a lot of the time. I don't think our national broadcaster should be promoting harm to children. It clearly learnt nothing from the Jimmy Savile scandal.

I used BBC sounds to cherry pick programs if annoying stuff comes on - keep meaning to look for more podcasts.

I think like many media these days - films/tv/books they are pulling from a much more limited pool of talent than they once did and it is starting to really show.

Doesn’t matter if it’s a tweet - it should be based on facts. Truth matters. I don’t understand what you mean by ‘committed’ anymore. In the first post I assumed you meant only a small group of ultra left diehards.

Anyway, I don’t think we’ll find common ground.

Because it's something they don't personally understand, therefore bad? Because they can't comprehend life changes constantly and that it's not personal? Because they are scared of an uncertain world and choose to direct their fear and anger at random groups of people? Pick one x

But it does matter to me that I correct fallacious arguments because unfettered, they become gospel, and that’s when we have problems. I’m sorry for taking the piss in my PP, that wasn’t kind.

So, let's get this straight for the record: do you believe transwomen are women? Do you believe transmen are men? Do you believe that women can have penises and men can have vaginas?

I don't have time to RTFT right now but your display of de haut en bas thinking and communication has me wondering what your own gospel is.

Post not tweet.it’s not Twitter

Committed just means those who stick with it, I used to be a regular reader but now I’m not.

The risk from Domperidone is related to cardiac irregularities in the mother and theoretically to the child. In the case of the birth mother establishing breast milk supply, some hcp judge the potential benefits to the baby to outweigh the risks to the mother/baby. The balance clearly shifts when the person taking the drug will never achieve a full supply to nourish the baby. Potentially placing the woman and child at risk for reduced benefit.

I don't understand why you can't conceive of the idea that the hormonal cascade and nuanced supply Vs demand process plus all the sensitive antibody and temperature and hydration feedback systems wouldn't be different in the woman who gave birth Vs those who did not and have lactation artificially stimulated by drugs. The biological mother gestated the baby, shared a blood supply with the baby and nourished it for it's entire existence pre birth as well as when breastfeeding. That cannot be hand waved away. That mother's body contains genetic imprints from the baby, and hosted the placenta, which kicks off all sorts of cascades as it is delivered and shears away from the uterus.

The lack of respect for the biological wonder of the female body is offensive and gobsmacking. To think that there is nothing that can't be replicated by taking a few pills is both naive and dismissive (and ignorant).

Plus the culture wars are manipulated by both sides. There is so much nefarious intent behind it, with hidden money and agendas sloshing throughout that it’s really hard not to feel forced to take a side. I do wonder how many trans people really care about being called wo/men rather than trans wo/men. I kind of think most of them would rather just be able to get on with living their lives.

Goodness. What happens when you have to deal with people who aren’t, in your terms, “well educated”? Or does that simply never happen?
spare us all the sort of education that results in this sort of narrow mind.

https://media-studies.com/the-guardian-study-guide/#:~:text=Essay%20Questions-,Demographics,dailies%20in%20the%20United%20Kingdom.

The map show a lot of their readership is now USA based so that must be influencing content.

The Guardian had a 3.2m monthly print and an 18.4m monthly digital readership.

https://media-studies.com/daily-mail-study-guide/

2 million readers every day

The MailOnline is a trailblazing global phenomenon, receiving an incredible 24.9m monthly unique visitors and becoming one of the world’s largest English-speaking newspaper websites.

Free on-line content does seem to be helping both of them.

That’s really unfair. I have utmost respect and wonder for the human body, male and female. The process of gestating, birthing and nourishing a baby is nothing short of incredible - and actually makes me understand why trans men want to do it, against their feelings about being female - complicated.

I simply asked for some stuff I can read that suggests the makeup of breast milk is different for birth mothers and non-birth feeders. I wasn’t trying to make a point, I’m trying to understand the biological mechanisms.

So did the spectator. Subscriptions of all kinds did well during the period. I’d be wary of inferring any trends in opinion from that.

All of what you said!

Why on earth are people so personally invested in the way other people choose to live? It’s no-one’s business except those involved. I’d respectfully suggest that the OP gets a life.

It's not about the way other people live. It's about women's rights, it's about freedom of speech, it's about the sterilisation and mutilation of lesbian, gay, autistic, confused and abused children. It's about silencing people who disagree with threats to rape them and their children, or club them to death with baseball bats covered in barbed wire.

Because those people are demanding that the rest of the world changes to accommodate their needs. They demand adherence to pronouns and dismissal from your work if you don't. They demand that the rest of the world says things they know not to be true. They deny debate — remember transwomen are women, no debate? They try to suppress free speech. Here's Professor Alice Sullivan on the importance of being able to to talk about the reality of sex:

And above all, they leave the vast majority of women uncomfortable and wondering why it's not okay for white people to pretend to be black, or why we can't all identify as pension age in order to claim our pensions, but it's perfectly okay for a man to say he's a woman and then beat women in women's sport or sit in the women's changing room watching women changing.

There is no way a toothache should be left untreated during pregnancy. You the Mother have a right to be pain free. A bit of local anaesthetic is unlikely to do any harm. Hope this wasn't an NHS way of restricting the care they needed to provide for free for a pregnant person. I think (male)dentists themselves take differing views on this e.g. would they leave their own pregnant wife suffering in pain with toothache do you think?
Yes obviously avoid unnecessary dental treatment especially first trimester but pain relief treatment is necessary.

sorry about 'pregnant person'....strewth....I meant 'pregnant woman' lol.

I had to give up radio 4 a few years ago after almost crashing my car on the way to work because I was too busy shouting and swearing at the radio 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️

Another R4 fan who's stopped listening pretty much completely. It was the soundtrack of my life from getting up in the morning until 8 in the evening. Sailing By was played at my Dad's funeral.

I can't bear most of it now - the afternoon dramas are weird, Woman's Hour is a shadow of it's former self, lots of cobbled together podcasty programming.

The comedy is pretty woeful and 'factual' programmes are one sided, and often navel gazing and superficial.

I have no idea what the BBC is trying to do with R4. They talk about attracting younger listeners but R4 has always been something people come to as they get older. As pp have pointed out, Listen With Mother as a child ( when it was on before Woman's Hour), then boooorrrrriiiing when your parents listened to the news and The Archers when you were a teenager, then finding a programme that piqued your interest, then getting hooked.

It's annoying - you never hear R1 trying to attract an older audience

DH has R2 on in the background while working but he's in 2 minds now Ken Bruce has gone and he's annoyed by Jeremy Vine's shock jock stuff. The calibre of presenters is fairly dire.