Elliot Page on Elizabeth Day

[RatatouilleAndFeta]

Still not looking entirely "joyful"

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuTxQpfgZDF/?igshid=MTIzZWMxMTBkOA==

I think because it's a horrible thing to recollect alongside all the missed opportunities and time he will never get back.

Seems like an very disturbed individual with so many issues.
All these interviews are horrible to watch. So exploitative.

Completely

I feel very sorry for Page, while at the same time being very angry with Page for continuing to present (albeit unconvincingly) a "my trans joy" narrative to the world, particularly a lot of vulnerable girls and women.

Page looks exhausted, and ill. And in spite of all the hormones and surgery and shit haircuts, I cannot read Page as anything other then female when I watch that video.

Apart from everything else, EP is going to damage EP's vocal chords speaking like that, surely. I can't listen to it.

Why is it always sympathy for Trans Masculine people and hatred for Trans Feminine people. I don't understand it. Elliot made this choice, as an adult. You're infantilising him and i'm sure if you actually spoke to the dude or had even a brief chat you could find the actual truth. He is talking about his past which he obviously hates doing and all you can gleam from this is "He is sad because he transitioned".

Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, I am wary of (not hating, drama much?) Transwomen because they are often motivated to transition by AGP, and I don't feel comfortable around men who get turned on by playing out an over-sexualised, insulting idea of womanhood. Especially as many transwomen with AGP also find transgression of women's boundaries part of the turn on - see wanking on knickers in the m&s changing room etc.

Transmen usually don't engage in aggressive destruction of men's boundaries or single sex spaces. Nor are they usually motivated by sexual fetishism.

@SirSamVimesCityWatch

Yes, it seems as if there are two largely separate narratives being played out side by side, but seldom meeting. Perhaps we will see more similarities now that increasingly younger children are being subjected to more extreme and irreversible therapies.

Its impossible not to feel compassion for Milo and Elliot, rather less for the piano player and the Cafe manager. Perhaps it’s just fear?

Maybe if you're browsing twitter it might seem like that but I just don't see it in real life. I can't think of any Trans Woman I know who would fit this description. I'm sure it exists don't get me wrong but it's a bit of a broad generalisation don't you think?

I do agree with the Trans Male point though. I have a Trans Male friend and he is very friendly, never really gets aggressive. I honestly think a lot of this aggression from men comes from a deep hatred of women which we as feminists should focus on more since groups like Men Going There Own Way do such a bad job. I guess the point is how can Trans Men hate women if they used to be a woman. It's kind of contradictory.

Possibly. I won't be apologizing for feeling fear of large, angry men who become violently agitated at the first sign you aren't worshipping at their oh so feminine size 11 feet, though.

I guess the point is how can Trans Men hate women if they used to be a woman.

The same way lots of other women hate women? The internalised misogyny of millenia is hard to shake off.

What ‘missed opportunities’? Becoming a world renown actress earning millions of $$$? Nobody gets any of the time they have lived back.

This person isn't identifying as a man, they're identifying out of being a woman in the hope of escaping the horrible trauma inflicted upon them as a young female. I'm not sure trauma works like that, but wish Page the best.

That's fair. Honestly if anyone gets violently aggressive regardless of gender just get the fuck out of there, it's happened enough times to me to learn anyone is capable of it although some are stronger than others, I just don't see the point in placing people into boxes, it breeds prejudice for no reason.

I guess this is one benefit of HRT and providing faster access for Trans Women. It's bad to say testosterone is the sole cause of violence and aggression but it doesn't help, similarly muscle mass significantly reduces post HRT from what i've heard

Yeah I type fast. Haven't got time to be a grammar queen. Couldn't edit it even if I wanted to haha

I don't think a trans person looking sad in an interview is somehow proof that transition was wrong for them.

What hormones are being replaced?

It's not HRT. Hormone replacement therapy is for women undergoing menopause who are no longer producing the hormones their body needs to stay healthy.

Men identifying as women are not experiencing a loss of hormone production. Therefore they are not in need of HRT.

As an FYI, advocating that transwomen need to take hormones, or do anything at all to their male bodies in order to "be women", is regarded as very transphobic in some quarters.

Are MGTOW a big deal anymore? Their figureheads seem like nobodies these days.

I know this is not the point of the OP, but what struck he was the interviewer* but I can't imagine any male interviewer "being so emotional for" anyone who is transitioning. And it read to me as those, again, women required to do the emotional labour for others.

*I've never heard of Elizabeth Day before

I'm gender-critical and I agree. I know Page is putting themselves on TV/Media but I find any speculation on people of this sort a bit distasteful. It's MN though so I'm in the minority! Evaulate what they say, sure. Critique their actions, sure.

Pile-ons on individuals often get deleted though, so might be best if people kept it polite.

The term Hormone replacement therapy is used interchangeably for women undergoing menopause and Transgender individuals which is confusing I have to admit. Sometimes medical professionals call it GAHT but no Transgender person does from what I can tell so it's kind of useless using that term. It also uses exactly the medications (Estradiol, Progesterone) just in a higher concentration to lower the levels of Testosterone in the body amongst other things.
This has a bunch of different effects (See image below)

Yes you're right, advocating a Trans Woman needs to take hormones is transphobic, you can't decide someone else's labels. I'm not advocating Trans Women have to take hormones at all i'm saying it helps with this predicament you shared and I think most Trans Women are aware of that and want to transition biologically

I think it's important to point out though under the NHS there is a massive 4-6 year waiting gap for most Gender Identity Clinic first appointments and another year or 2 for hormone treatment to start, even though officially it has the highest success rate of any medical treatment on the NHS.

Surgery for GRS can take years to arrange so saying a Trans person is only trans after hormone therapy isn't just transphobic it's also incredibly impractical.