Elliot Page on Elizabeth Day

[RatatouilleAndFeta]

Still not looking entirely "joyful"

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuTxQpfgZDF/?igshid=MTIzZWMxMTBkOA==

Yes, I have seen several confidently walk into the ladies. But I am sure it is indeed terrifying to anticipate one's carefully constructed fantasy to come crashing down.

I'm sorry wait the same Michigan Womyn's Festival Le Tigre played at. The same one they where forced out of for simply accepting that they wanted to play, not by Trans Women I might add. Is this the same festival where Trans Men where allowed as well regardless. You're acting like Trans Women's attendance single handedly destroyed it. The festival was burnt down by it's own members.

Quickly Googled Le Tigre.

Le Tigre, along with several acts from Mr. Lady, played at the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival in 2001 and 2005. This festival became controversial for its "womyn-born womyn" stance and exclusion of trans women from the festival, leading critics to believe that Mr. Lady and Le Tigre were transphobic. Several acts from the label, including Le Tigre and The Butchies, received verbal harassment and death threats as a result of playing at the 2001 festival.

It's shocking and repugnant what male activists did to Michfest. One of the worst moments in the torrid history of genderism.

She's so sycophantic. Always.

I haven’t heard this interview but Day gushes and coos over everyone she interviews. It’s why I unsubscribed from her podcast.

“Transmen” are females AKA women. Like what Elliott Page is. Which is why they were allowed to attend.

evieowlette

Do you think that Elliot Page is now a heterosexual man and straight women would, or should, accept him as such?

And, on that basis, lesbian women will be rejecting him out of hand?

The treatment of lesbians by the trans rights movement makes me incandescent with age, @QueenHippolyta - I can only imagine how horrible it must feel to be treated this way.

What difference does it make to women if males are terrified when they invade women’s spaces? They still do it.

I still get the same stress/fear response when I encounter a man in a place where he’s not meant to be, regardless of how he’s feeling. This has happened several times in the past few years. It is definitely increasing.

We know men enter women’s spaces, sometimes claiming to be women, and attack women because of the cases that come to court. Most sexual assaults go unrecorded, so cases in the news are the tip of the iceberg.

This is worth repeating. You put it so clearly.

And also to say @QueenHippolyta how sorry I am to hear so many stories from lesbian friends about how gender extremist ideology is making their lives difficult & painful.

I wish gay men were better at listening to lesbians, but plus ça change. They've never been interested.

@Ofcourseshecan - your post made me think of the saying - Men are afraid that women will laugh at them, women are afraid that men will kill them. I think that applies even when the man in question is ‘trans’.

I made a joke (years ago) in my Lesbian group; "Ugh, who wants to be a man?" Two gay men who were trans in my group complained about me and tried to have me thrown out.
Men who are trans , whether gay or straight act like men and of course cannot bear to hear a word against their sex!

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius and @SideWonder thank you. Lesbians get a lot of support here and I clearly see our future is with women's groups.

My point is the males or how i'd describe "Trans Women" who are afraid and going into women's same sex toilets and changing rooms and are terrified of being kicked out and aren't the people convicting these kind of crimes. If you look at the rape and assault charges for Trans Women across the country nearly all happened whilst the assailant was still a man. These are predatory individuals who have no shame walking into these spaces anyway regardless of how they look.

The issue is crossdressers and predatory individuals disguising themselves as Trans Women under the pretence to do significant harm to other Cisgendered Women. The problem is there is no easy solution to this. A law can be introduced to kick Trans Women out of spaces but then Trans Men (Including passing Trans Men) have the right to enter Womens only spaces. Then you blur the lines even more for the type of people you expect to see in these places making it even easier for a Cisgendered Man to walk in and do whatever he wants. Nobody has considered this possibility yet because it isn't in law yet.

You might argue to kick Trans Women out of women's only spaces entirely but there is no way to enforce this because there are plenty of passing Trans Women you don't see and can't just check the genitals of no matter how much you would like to in this scenario.

there are plenty of passing Trans Women you don't see

None of the transwomen I know personally passes fully. While they may not look conventionally male/masculine, they don’t look female.

In my experience, transwomen appear to pass because women are socialised to be polite and kind.

Men are not necessarily socialised to be nice and kind, and some of them see transwomen as an aberration in being male/masculine. The violence some transwomen may face is on the basis of sex - their male sex.

Men and boys are often “punished” by other men for their sex and gender non-conformity. Transwomen particularly so.

If you look at the rape and assault charges for Trans Women across the country nearly all happened whilst the assailant was still a man.

Of course they did. People can't change sex, so men who at some point in their lives identify as 'transwomen' are still men, so all their crimes are committed while they are 'still men'.

The issue is crossdressers and predatory individuals disguising themselves as Trans Women under the pretence to do significant harm to other Cisgendered Women.

How do we tell the difference between a man who genuinely believes himself to be a 'transwoman' and a man who is pretending to be a 'transwomen'? Layla Moran has a method of seeing into people's souls, but most of us don't have that ability, so how can we know?

And I'll just remind you again of the mumsnet rules about using 'cis'.

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/trans-rights-moderation-policy

A law can be introduced to kick Trans Women out of spaces but then Trans Men (Including passing Trans Men) have the right to enter Womens only spaces. Then you blur the lines even more for the type of people you expect to see in these places making it even easier for a Cisgendered Man to walk in and do whatever he wants. Nobody has considered this possibility yet because it isn't in law yet.

Well, if all men who believe themselves to be 'transwomen' use men's spaces, and women who are 'passing transmen' also use men's spaces (because the men won't notice because they pass), then women's spaces can be for just women again.

You might argue to kick Trans Women out of women's only spaces entirely but there is no way to enforce this because there are plenty of passing Trans Women you don't see and can't just check the genitals of no matter how much you would like to in this scenario.

No we don't want to check anyone's genitals. One of the problems of men using women's spaces is that they're often far too keen to show us their genitals when we don't want to see them. And a man who has has his penis amputated is still a man anyway.

And if so-called 'transwomen' know they shouldn't be in women's spaces, why would any of them be in there? What sort of person goes into a space where they don't belong when they know that they might cause distress to the women in there? You really seem to have a very low opinion of so-called 'transwomen'.

The issue is crossdressers and predatory individuals disguising themselves as Trans Women

I agree. There is no way to tell the difference. And what do all of these people have in common? They are male.

Males commit 98% of all sexual assaults and around 80% of all violent assaults.

Women as a class need single sex spaces.

Do you never learn?

It's not HRT when men take it.

On another thread you are adamant they all want surgery and bleat on about how long it takes.
Make up your mind

I didnt mention this on the other thread you disappeared from but I've been waiting a very very long time for an eye operation. More than 5 years now (covid did not help)

So because I can see a bit out of one eye I'm low on the list, and that's medical need.

Other non medical operations should have a long wait time.

A huge problem now is if you report a rape and use the wrong pronoun or say a man did it (only men can rape) then you might be up on charges of transphobia.

Even the potential of being dragged through court for that will put off many women. Then if you did and even got to court ( vanishingly unlikely) you would have to use the correct pronouns for your rapist. I know I couldn't do that.

Given that you learnt so much on these threads yesterday, @evieowlette , may I point out that you don’t need to capitalise Trans Women, Trans Men, and shouldn’t be using the terms cisgender/ciswomen at all when you’ve been asked not to by plenty of posters. Capitalised or not, I am not cis, I am a woman who needs no prefix. Thanks.

By the way @evieowlette I posted reams of links on the other thread yesterday. You did say that you would read studies and papers, I suggest that you start with those. Feel free to tell us which ones you find problematic, it would be a very interesting conversation.

Or was your post saying you would read studies and papers performative and not something you were ever intending to do?

Evieowlette is now @RatatouilleAndFeta
Won't anyone think of the poor Men (transwomen)sob

what kind of selfish bitches are we to deprive them of their validation.

I thought Rat and Feta was around before owlette. I must be mistaken.

You're not mistaken. I've been told I'm posters I'm not by this poster.

Even if it were true, I don't think it's allowed to explicitly post people's other usernames.