Page 3 | Elliot Page on Elizabeth Day

RatatouilleAndFeta · 2023-07-05T12:54:13+00:00

Still not looking entirely "joyful" [[https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuTxQpfgZDF/?igshid=MTIzZWMxMTBkOA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/CuTxQpfgZDF/?igshid=MTIzZWMxMTBkOA==]]

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 18:56

RoseslnTheHospital · 05/07/2023 18:00

My first point would be that rates of detransition alone aren't a good measure of treatment success. And, there are many issues with that review of patient notes that many people posting here have gone over before.

And, I have no issue with adults presenting how they wish, or having whatever treatment they and their HCPs feel is necessary for them. None of that would ever enable anyone to change sex.

They are a pretty good marker

MavisMcMinty · 05/07/2023 18:57

yeah you completely miss calculated that.

I calculated nothing, C&Pd it directly from GenderGP’s website, in the “Costs” page.

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:05

MrGHardy · 05/07/2023 18:53

Because that is literally all she talks about and 100% the way she comes across. Meanwhile males are the total opposite when they transition and barge into women's spaces.

A little thought could have answered your own question.

Show quote history

I really don't know a single Trans Woman who isn't afraid of entering a Women's only space. My friend has described it as terrifying and every time I go out with her she plans out where the nearest Gender Neutral bathroom is. Heck i've booked tables near a GN bathroom just for this singular reason.

Have you had any personal experience of this? If so I am genuinely curious

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:06

MavisMcMinty · 05/07/2023 18:57

yeah you completely miss calculated that.

I calculated nothing, C&Pd it directly from GenderGP’s website, in the “Costs” page.

Please read the actual costs. You need to be a member before even accessing the service and the medication they provide.

murderbythebook · 05/07/2023 19:08

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 18:56

They are a pretty good marker

Show quote history

They’re really not (see my previous post)

Helleofabore · 05/07/2023 19:14

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 16:49

I think it's important to point out though under the NHS there is a massive 4-6 year waiting gap for most Gender Identity Clinic first appointments and another year or 2 for hormone treatment to start, even though officially it has the highest success rate of any medical treatment on the NHS.

Surgery for GRS can take years to arrange so saying a Trans person is only trans after hormone therapy isn't just transphobic it's also incredibly impractical.

Please stop spreading misinformation. We KNOW there is no credible analysis done on the GIDS patients. There will likely be transcripts available somewhere with just that admission in court. Hence the Cass investigation and report.

I cannot believe you posted something from Gender GP. How ridiculous! It is their livelihood they are supporting and there is no onus on them to be truthful. At all. They have been proven to be issuing prescriptions for patients after the Bell decision was handed down. They are a profit making business.

There are also stats up until the massive increases in teenaged female patients of detransition rates of 8% to 9 % across a couple of different reviews. Again, this is before the massive increase in numbers.

So, please. Stop spreading harmful misinformation.

RoseslnTheHospital · 05/07/2023 19:14

@evieowlette I'm glad your friend plans to use and uses mixed sex facilities.

MavisMcMinty · 05/07/2023 19:18

Please read the actual costs. You need to be a member before even accessing the service and the medication they provide.

Ah, right, and to become a member All patients pay a one-off set up fee of £195 which enables them to subscribe as a member of our service. Why would GenderGP put a costs page on their website for all to look at, but only give you the TRUE costs once you’ve handed over £195? Sounds a bit Scientologyish.

I’m baffled by your posts, I have to say. It’s like you’re throwing random links around in the hope that nobody will bother clicking on them.

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:25

MavisMcMinty · 05/07/2023 19:18

Please read the actual costs. You need to be a member before even accessing the service and the medication they provide.

Ah, right, and to become a member All patients pay a one-off set up fee of £195 which enables them to subscribe as a member of our service. Why would GenderGP put a costs page on their website for all to look at, but only give you the TRUE costs once you’ve handed over £195? Sounds a bit Scientologyish.

I’m baffled by your posts, I have to say. It’s like you’re throwing random links around in the hope that nobody will bother clicking on them.

You are also charged a subscription fee, have to do an information gathering session, etc... Lots of hidden charges. It's a complete scam but Trans Women and Trans Men don't really have a choice.

I'm not posting random links I linked the wrong thing because I was rushing to post a reply. I'm trying to work at the moment as well (quite un-successfully haha). This could be fixed easily but I can't edit posts

RoseslnTheHospital · 05/07/2023 19:27

Of course they have a choice. They wait on the NHS like everyone else who needs treatment. They're far from alone in having long waiting times for appointments and treatments.

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:28

RoseslnTheHospital · 05/07/2023 19:14

@evieowlette I'm glad your friend plans to use and uses mixed sex facilities.

I don't really know a Trans Man or Trans Woman who wouldn't want to. If there are seriously Transgender people out there who are not happy with mixed sex facilities and refuse to use them I want to meet them and chat.

The issue is nobody is building GN facilities because it's not seen as a priority at the moment. At my university there is exactly 1 GN toilet for the entire campus which spreads over 2 miles in length

ArabeIIaScott · 05/07/2023 19:36

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:05

I really don't know a single Trans Woman who isn't afraid of entering a Women's only space. My friend has described it as terrifying and every time I go out with her she plans out where the nearest Gender Neutral bathroom is. Heck i've booked tables near a GN bathroom just for this singular reason.

Have you had any personal experience of this? If so I am genuinely curious

Show quote history

Personal experience of transwomen in womens loos?

Yes. I met a transwoman in a women's toilet when I was 17. He was masturbating against the sink.

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:37

Helleofabore · 05/07/2023 19:14

Please stop spreading misinformation. We KNOW there is no credible analysis done on the GIDS patients. There will likely be transcripts available somewhere with just that admission in court. Hence the Cass investigation and report.

I cannot believe you posted something from Gender GP. How ridiculous! It is their livelihood they are supporting and there is no onus on them to be truthful. At all. They have been proven to be issuing prescriptions for patients after the Bell decision was handed down. They are a profit making business.

There are also stats up until the massive increases in teenaged female patients of detransition rates of 8% to 9 % across a couple of different reviews. Again, this is before the massive increase in numbers.

So, please. Stop spreading harmful misinformation.

Show quote history

The waiting times for Transgender patients is common knowledge I have no idea what you are on about. If you look up any GIC in the UK you will find public information about the waiting times for a first appointment.

I posted something from GenderGP to explain how that is the only viable path for safe HRT prescription and a biological transition without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria an initial private first appointment for costs at least £300. Check out "Gender Care". https://gendercare.co.uk/ for example. You need 2 separate appointments with different psychologists for an assessment and regular checks with an Endocrinologist which the NHS will not pay for to even ask for a HRT prescription alone.

When I have time i'll look through the Detransition evidence again. Keep in mind any statistics from another country are useless especially from the USA since they have planned parenthood which offers informed consent.

Gender Care: UK specialists in gender therapy

https://gendercare.co.uk

Truthlikeness · 05/07/2023 19:38

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 16:25

That's fair. Honestly if anyone gets violently aggressive regardless of gender just get the fuck out of there, it's happened enough times to me to learn anyone is capable of it although some are stronger than others, I just don't see the point in placing people into boxes, it breeds prejudice for no reason.

I guess this is one benefit of HRT and providing faster access for Trans Women. It's bad to say testosterone is the sole cause of violence and aggression but it doesn't help, similarly muscle mass significantly reduces post HRT from what i've heard

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Where is a woman supposed to go when a violent male is in the spaces specifically set up for her safety and protection? Stay at home I guess... as seems to be the latest advice from TRAs.

Muscle mass doesn't significantly reduce after hormone treatment.

Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage - PubMed

Males enjoy physical performance advantages over females within competitive sport. The sex-based segregation into male and female sporting categories does not account for transgender persons who experience incongruence between their biological sex and...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:39

@ArabeIIaScott That's pretty disgusting not gonna lie. I'm sorry u had to see that.

ArabeIIaScott · 05/07/2023 19:44

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 17:30

@ArabeIIaScott

You realise just how similar this rhetoric is to how Gay and Lesbian people where treated in the UK and still are around the world today.

The concept of being homosexual was abnormal and escaping the religious values of monogamy and heterosexuality was seen as unhealthy. Well i say unhealthy it was treated much worse than that. Gay men where also consistently framed as predators or paedophiles in the same way Trans Women are today amongst a range of other stereotypes.

Just because this isn't tied to religion doesn't mean what you're saying is any different. Most Transgender people do not choose to become trans whether you can believe that or not. Trans people have existed forever in different cultures and the prevalence of more Transgender people coming out, alongside medical advances such as HRT and better acceptance for non-binary people has opened that pandoras box and made it impossible to go back.

You may see this as a bad thing but it can be a way to a better life. A lot live in intense fear and may never come out. I know a friend who is contemplating killing herself because she can't bare to face the ridicule in Japan and the fact she will never be accepted. These are silent deaths, not as many as the media would lead you to believe but they do happen more often than they should.

Show quote history

Well, I suppose they do say every generation thinks they've invented sex, but it does make me feel somewhat old and tired to have it earnestly explained to me.

Pet, I'm talking about self acceptance. I have no idea how you've managed to find a hot take on gay history in there, but I suggest you put it away for now.

ArabeIIaScott · 05/07/2023 19:46

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:39

@ArabeIIaScott That's pretty disgusting not gonna lie. I'm sorry u had to see that.

Thank you, yes. I got out safely. Unfortunately some men have very odd fetishes.

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:46

Truthlikeness · 05/07/2023 19:38

Where is a woman supposed to go when a violent male is in the spaces specifically set up for her safety and protection? Stay at home I guess... as seems to be the latest advice from TRAs.

Muscle mass doesn't significantly reduce after hormone treatment.

Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

Show quote history

Interesting. Yeah i'm fine being proven wrong I know there is a decrease in muscle mass but I didn't know by how much. I'm not the oracle on these things after all. I'm not Trans myself.

it's a good case for exclusion from specific sports competitions. I should also note a general reduction in libido, sexual disfunction and variable rates of sterilisation across the Trans Women population also have an effect obviously. How much I don't know. I'm sure there is a research study somewhere

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:48

@ArabeIIaScott It's not really a hot take. I'm noting the similarities between how to speak about Trans Women to how Gay and Lesbian populations have been treated in the past. I don't need to be patronised I understand the basic history behind pride even if I may not know the specifics. I'm happy to be enlightened though

Helleofabore · 05/07/2023 20:08

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:37

The waiting times for Transgender patients is common knowledge I have no idea what you are on about. If you look up any GIC in the UK you will find public information about the waiting times for a first appointment.

I posted something from GenderGP to explain how that is the only viable path for safe HRT prescription and a biological transition without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria an initial private first appointment for costs at least £300. Check out "Gender Care". https://gendercare.co.uk/ for example. You need 2 separate appointments with different psychologists for an assessment and regular checks with an Endocrinologist which the NHS will not pay for to even ask for a HRT prescription alone.

When I have time i'll look through the Detransition evidence again. Keep in mind any statistics from another country are useless especially from the USA since they have planned parenthood which offers informed consent.

Show quote history

“even though officially it has the highest success rate of any medical treatment on the NHS.”

You said it was the ‘highest success rate of any medical treatment’ on the NHS.

There is NO data that makes this true. Why did you say this!

Helleofabore · 05/07/2023 20:10

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:37

The waiting times for Transgender patients is common knowledge I have no idea what you are on about. If you look up any GIC in the UK you will find public information about the waiting times for a first appointment.

I posted something from GenderGP to explain how that is the only viable path for safe HRT prescription and a biological transition without a diagnosis of gender dysphoria an initial private first appointment for costs at least £300. Check out "Gender Care". https://gendercare.co.uk/ for example. You need 2 separate appointments with different psychologists for an assessment and regular checks with an Endocrinologist which the NHS will not pay for to even ask for a HRT prescription alone.

When I have time i'll look through the Detransition evidence again. Keep in mind any statistics from another country are useless especially from the USA since they have planned parenthood which offers informed consent.

Show quote history

I was quoting from a UK NHS regional review and a European review. I think that I am quite comfortable with the statistics I have seen. thanks.

Helleofabore · 05/07/2023 20:15

evieowlette · 05/07/2023 19:46

Interesting. Yeah i'm fine being proven wrong I know there is a decrease in muscle mass but I didn't know by how much. I'm not the oracle on these things after all. I'm not Trans myself.

it's a good case for exclusion from specific sports competitions. I should also note a general reduction in libido, sexual disfunction and variable rates of sterilisation across the Trans Women population also have an effect obviously. How much I don't know. I'm sure there is a research study somewhere

Show quote history

We can provide you with another 3 or 4 studies about the physical comparisons between males on testosterone and females if you would like? The decreases in nearly all aspects of physical measurements leaves a significant gap.

If I remember correctly the grip strength of the weakest quartile of testosterone reduced male were still stronger than 90 % of all female people.

And that is not punch power, which is one of the hugest differences.

SkaterBrained · 05/07/2023 20:49

I think, in general, you should be wary of anyone claiming anything is:" even though officially it has the highest success rate of any medical treatment on the NHS." That is not the language used by reputable researchers.

NHS treatments include: having your appendix out, measles vaccines, dental work, painkillers... all of these have objective outcome measures for success and are extremely successful treatments.

Any unnecessary or cosmetic treatment claiming to be more successful than the lifesaving act of whipping out an appendix when all you can measure is regret/happiness immediately after surgery despite worse physical health, is the language of a snake oil salesman.

I actually think it's closer to the true meaning of transphobic to give trans people a lower standard of care, with very little honesty or informed consent, as these claims do.

Helleofabore · 05/07/2023 20:51

SkaterBrained · 05/07/2023 20:49

I think, in general, you should be wary of anyone claiming anything is:" even though officially it has the highest success rate of any medical treatment on the NHS." That is not the language used by reputable researchers.

NHS treatments include: having your appendix out, measles vaccines, dental work, painkillers... all of these have objective outcome measures for success and are extremely successful treatments.

Any unnecessary or cosmetic treatment claiming to be more successful than the lifesaving act of whipping out an appendix when all you can measure is regret/happiness immediately after surgery despite worse physical health, is the language of a snake oil salesman.

I actually think it's closer to the true meaning of transphobic to give trans people a lower standard of care, with very little honesty or informed consent, as these claims do.

“I actually think it's closer to the true meaning of transphobic to give trans people a lower standard of care, with very little honesty or informed consent, as these claims do.”

I agree.

But the poster has declared on another thread that we have no critical thinking skills in this ‘absolute cesspit’…. Guess we are the wrong type of feminists. We don’t ‘affirm’ poor knowledge and misinformation, we challenge the shit out it.

QueenHippolyta · 05/07/2023 21:12

I'm a 50 something Lesbian and NO it is not the same. We simply wanted the same legal rights as heterosexuals.
We didn't demand they change reality. We didn't force ourselves socially and demand straight people include us in their sexuality.

The Michigan Womyn's Festival was destroyed by male trans activists. There is barely a Lesbian club, bookstore or cafe left due to men's demands that they be included. Young Lesbians are told to accept girldick.

This entire Trans movement is homophobic to the core. So STOP USING US