Horrible news story

[MumblesParty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-66107716

And I can't help wondering if the "women" assailants are actually women.
Poor kid.

I will repeat if you think sex is the same as gender fine

You've completely missed the point. No-one here thinks sex is the same as gender.

Good god can you not see the issue with this. From the definition you choose to use men do not have boobs and are incapable of having GRS and so the idea that a Trans Woman can be at risk of these is ignored because you have quite literally erased the word used to help distinguish these changes easily.

I will repeat if you think sex is the same as gender fine but I can't agree to that because there is a reason for having 2 separate terms to help categorise peoples experiences properly.

The two separate terms are men for male people and women for female people.

What is Gender then? Enlighten me?

I agree with @NecessaryScene . I was OK with trans women being the term, I understood that we were talking about men who wanted to adopt the persona of 'being a woman' ,whatever that might mean, but I lost it with the whole TWAW nonsense. That's so utterly ridiculous that it doesn't need explanation.
Stop the nonsense and we will get on better, accept that men or people with a male body have no business in women's spaces, stop pandering to men who use their privilege to undermine women, accept that only women give birth and , oh reject all of the other nonsense activists are spouting and we can all be happier. And stop thinking that 'being kind ' helps anyone, because it doesn't.

Quite a few men have boobs now! And they also have genital surgery!

Where have you been?

The problem is not all transwomen take cross sex hormones or have grs so it is important that transwomen are acknowledged as male and what medical interventions they take so their individualrisk can be assessed. There is no point treating them as women because they have a completely different risk category (lower)

Sets of stereotypes associated with the two sexes.

Not in the UK. You can declare you are Transgender but officially on ID documents you are not and the government will not treat you as such.

The whole concept of Gender Dysphoria breaks down anyway because after waiting 2-6 years for a first appointment people will just lie. No one really knows if Gender Dysphoria is a useful metric at least in the UK because the evidence is completely skewed. If a person doesn't have Gender Dysphoria they may still experience Gender Euphoria as well and take Gender Affirming Hormones anyway without the explicit permission from a doctor.

In this sense a person can declare they are Transgender but officially no one else has to agree with this and the laws follow suite in the UK. Again it's a point of not introducing Self ID and nothing else

What is Gender then? Enlighten me?

I already posted this upthread but you're not reading the responses properly at all. I can tell by your response to my previous post which bears no relation to what I actually said.

Gender are the roles and expectations that a particular society holds towards the two sexes. These can and have obviously varied across time and region but in general gender roles are oppressive to women, and often to men who don't conform to stereotype.

That is why asking someone to agree that they are cisgender is asking them to say they agree with the gender norms of a society, ie buy into their own oppression.

I have never understood gender as an identity. I certainly don't have one.

You seem to believe in gender identity as some sort of material reality which is why you are struggling to understand what people are saying to you. If you accept that it's not a concept everyone believes, things might be clearer to you.

Quite a few men have boobs. Very, very few have genital surgery.

The whole concept of Gender Dysphoria breaks down anyway because after waiting 2-6 years for a first appointment people will just lie

Why do you necessarily think that the treatment for gender dysphoria should be hormones and surgery? Could you conceive that it might be an issue with the person's mind not their body?

Also since when did Cisgender women have to change clothes or appear feminine? To me this is going against the entire purpose of why I got into feminism in the first place. To escape these shitty stereotypes.

Also since when did Cisgender women have to change clothes or appear feminine? To me this is going against the entire purpose of why I got into feminism in the first place. To escape these shitty stereotypes.

But you are telling us that men who adopt feminine clothes are women.

Actually @evieowlette you are wrong, you don't need a grc to change your driving licence or passport sex marker only for a birth certificate. You can get away with not having to show your birth certificate, generally everything works on self id. Male bodied people are placed in female prisons on their say so only. Self id may not be law but it is what happens

But you are telling us that men who adopt feminine clothes are women.

There's literally not a logically consistant chain of thought in evidence.

Not true, quite possible to change name tell everyone you are female and lo, you are treated as female. Before long the passport says female, medical records say female etc. Believe me I have personal experience of that, it's part of 'living as a female' to access medical treatment , to be given hormones and all the rest of it.

I already posted this upthread but you're not reading the responses properly at all. I can tell by your response to my previous post which bears no relation to what I actually said.

At least you got a response, JudgeAnderson, my question got ignored!

evieowlette seems to prefer responding to their own posts anyway.

That's the gender woo crowd for you. Incapable of joined-up thinking.

Can you define “woman”?

And twisting what other people say.

It's fascinating. The way a few people have been manipulated is extraordinary. It's interesting to watch the contortionist language. I'm enjoying the capitalisation of all the Important Identity Words.

It's as if this has been drilled in by rote learning and the words come out as they were memorised from a PowerPoint.

I hate PowerPoint.

Most feminists have rejected the stereotypes for many years. We have always said "wear whatever you want, present however you please, work in whatever job you enjoy, love whoever you like, participate in any activities you enjoy your sex remains fixed and thats ok"
It is the trans community that equate fitting in with rigid gender stereotypes with changing biological sex.
Our sex is the ONLY thing that binds women together as a group.

I hate PowerPoint.

My brain refuses powerpoint. I can write code quite happily but powerpoint is a no.

It's interesting that there's no real engagement. It does feel like a lecture rather than a discussion but it also feels like a lecture from a student who doesn't quite understand the subject.