To ask everyone who has heard of using pronouns to watch this?

[Moomoola]

its a worthwhile introduction/ explanation of what’s going on that I’ve found. Please watch it - and post your responses. It may also be very worthwhile checking what’s going on in your child’s school - if they’re not in hols!
thank you!

Is this for me Wicked?

An advanced search on usernames telling women what good feminists do and how ashamed we should be for even watching something is interesting though.

I am not ignoring the message, I am trying to point out that the message that women watching or reading content from even people who are abhorrent should be ashamed is very fucked up for many rather obvious reasons.

Didn't Megyn Kelly do an absolutely brilliant interview with Posie Parker (Kelly J Keen?) It was really good.

I am sick of being told people belong to the left or right and will consume whatever I want. It's liberating to widen one's world view.

Those trying to throw verbal dirt on people just for watching something by someone you dislike are intolerant. And that is why this TRA nonsense has a comfortable resting place on the Left, with a nice welcome mat underneath the door.

You believe you are tolerant though, whilst shrieking all the traditional shaming 'be kind' origin words (racist, misogynist, bible thumping, (laughable,Megyn is far from it) bigot, phobic etc etc etc the very same tactics the TRAs use, that's the irony.

Also god help me I hate having to do this shit, but I'm Black and I have listened to Megyn quite a few times. I mostly agree with her views. I also don't agree with everything she says, but I certainly would not call for her to be silenced. Now someone else with my skin tone will say 'I've listened to her and I can't abide her' and that's ok. It's ok to differ.

What's not fine is trying to take ownership of other people through the device of group identity (ie. Being GC or women) and attempt to shame them into not doing what is a human right ie. listening to viewpoints of others.

Inbetween all this crap about identity grouping are individuals who are honestly thinking what on earth has possessed everyone else.

No,it'a a comment on the 'she's a nasty racist/bigot/far right nut job so nothing she ever says could be worth listening to' tone of some of the posts in this thread.

Yeah. I wasn't sure, so I clarified.

Thank you for clarifying. You are right, of course. It is ad hom attacks with no discussion.

Having been encouraged to watch the video by all the TRAs on here telling me not to, I would say definitely worth a watch. She lays out how starting with pronouns has taken us to hugely harming women. I particularly like the point that by using ‘preferred pronouns’ we cede the argument on women’s rights before it is even made. That is an important point I am going to take forward should anyone tell me using preferred pronouns is just ‘being kind’.

What is with all these «left» posters completely dehumanising others for not being left wing?

It is sickening to read.

Agreeing with conservative politics is not the same as selling your soul to Satan and being a devil-minion forever.

I know, respect and love many people who are christians, conservative and probably right-wing too. They are not automatically racist. They are not automatically nazis (which for the record was a strong government and state controlled socialist political dictatorship).

They love and respect me, with my atheistic and slightly left of centre politics in return. We debate, we disagree, we sort of agree, we reach compromises etc.

Apart from that it is certainly not advisable to rely on other people’s version of what someone said.

And lastly: when I work with drug addicts and criminals who may hold and express abhorrent views is it better to try to talk to them and see if we can return to sanity and Humanity, or should I immediately chuck them to the dogs?

"What is with all these «left» posters completely dehumanising others for not being left wing?"

It really is rather peculiar for feminists I would have thought....

I cannot imagine what feminist vilifies another for reviewing original source material!

I reckon it is those few who believe they might be the most tolerant of feminists....

(using the new meaning of tolerant - which is of course the very opposite of tolerant)

There is a reason that 'guilt by association' is a fallacy. It is important to note just how often it relies on emotional manipulation for it to convince others.

I guess there are some people who are very concerned about maintaining their 'left wing' credentials and will be swayed by a person who is using this as a tactic to silence women.

Hear, hear.

Just because I agree with someone about X it doesn't mean that we have the same views on Y - or that either of us should be banned for what we believe, or that other people should be stopped from listening to us and making up their own minds.

If we all just sit and chant "Four legs good: two legs bad" and never listen to the pros and cons re: number of legs, we'll never learn anything.

Too many people nowadays just refuse to think - they actually don't want to know the truth about anything - they just want to regurgitate the same old stuff and prevent anyone from ever challenging it.

As I read recently - "Just because someone disagree with you, it doesn't mean that you are oppressed".

I bloody love Megyn Kelly.

I'd like to be like her.
Whip smart, articulate, brave, tenacious , successful, rich, happily married, beautiful.

And she's totally right on this. And you know what else I love; she changed her mind. Hardly anyone does that these days. At least not this publically.

I'm sure there are things I don't agree with her on, but I really admire her.

Also this is a feminism board, not a left wing feminism board as some people seem to think it is or should be in their view.

And there are many versions of feminism, and even more versions of women's rights.

I don't know why some posters believe only people of one political view have a right to post here. Or that only links to people with left wing views should be shared.
It's a very odd assumption.

What is with all these «left» posters completely dehumanising others for not being left wing?

turning this around, knowing that grass roots feminism has been, for many years, associated with the political left, then a tactic to shut them up might involve them someone that believing/saying X makes them right wing. Divide and conquer and all of that.

I am left-wing and have not noticed a LW slant on Mumsnet. Just have a look at threads about Brexit, Labour, Conservatives, sometimes it feels like walking through Daily Mail Land.

But why do you need to post your personal dislike of someone on a thread by a mother with a troubled child who is promoting something she believes will help other parents?

You are talking over this mother as if your personal preference of highly paid tv presenters should take precedence over this mother in a difficult situation who is seeking to help other parents in similarly difficult situations.

This is mumsnet, a parenting board and that dimension was the point of the thread, not a thread about who you like to watch or won't watch on American TV.

You're sadly doing the GC movement real harm and it's a shame some of you are too blinkered to even realise.”

By now it's obvious to anyone not blinkered that the only "harm" emanates from the ridiculous fringe people doing the whole right wing adjacent Nazi name calling thing in the Greens and Lib Dems and Labour crazies. Or Twitter bores.

If they are continuing to shout Nazis at you and that bothers you then I really hope you recover soon!

I don't think we have to worry about Conservative lawmakers who are also on the receiving end of the ridiculous fringe's Nazi name calling nonsense!

If you are worried that Labour believes the Nazi name calling and that's harmful, well, there is sometimes nothing you can do about the bubble the left lives in.

Not directed at you Hellebore, the poster isn't reading so I was just adding to your points.

I picked that hepwo. Thanks for clarifying though.

I doubt that @comeatmeallyouwant or cocoloco will be back to read it though. I suspect they were drive by scoldings with the ridiculous notion of presenting a parody of what a feminist thinks.

I answered before I started to look up the names of the shamers because they were not familiar as regular feminist posters. I am tired and didn’t make the connection at first. I was rather horrified that ‘actual feminists’ would be so narrow minded as to not even view original source material before shaming others with such crap as these guilt by association fallacies.

I am sure you are aware of such groups who use that tactic to silence feminists hepwo, if you know what I mean. This really was like a replay from both earlier this year and mid last year - it is like a slightly tweaked deja vu….

It was originally posted outside of the norty step...

I was thinking mainly outside MN, and the collectives of the 70s and 80s like the various groups of the women’s liberation movement, Greenham common etc.

For me, the smearing from some on the left of those on the right has become so normalized that I actively read/watch what the so-called nazis, nazi-adjacent right-wing people are saying in order to make up my own mind. Seeing that even J. K. Rowling was smeared as a bigot/transphobe/horrible person by so many on the left, I am now wary of taking anything the left says on face value even though my own politics are left of center.

I also find it patronizing when other people tell me who I should or should not listen to. Therefore, I suppose it's a bit of an own goal of the the left that their antics now actively make me read/watch content of those on the right, whereas before I did not question the integrity and honesty of those on the left.

As for Megyn Kelly's position on pronouns, I agree with her on this point. It's a pity there are not many on the left who are willing to push back against gender ideology in the same way.

?? This was posted on feminism chat, not on one of the parenting threads. Also, MN is far more than a parenting board. And as this thread is posted on feminism, i think one should be free to express doubt in the sincerity of a woman such as kelly, who stated in an interview that feminists are 100% anti-republican (conservative), and also anti-men, and who applauded the scotus for overturning abortion rights. Interview, with clickable link:

For me it’s a no-brainer. I’m definitely not a feminist because I think feminists, that term right now, has become associated with a few different things that I don’t want anything to do with. Feminists of today are 100% anti-Republican, anti-conservative. They can’t stand conservative women.

I think they’re anti-men. Their rhetoric on trying to empower women, too often for me, does so by denigrating men. That’s not the way forward. That’s not the way to empower hearts, minds and I don’t agree with it.

However, I do understand your concern re. the OP’s message being obscured. I have expressed my opinion (probably ad nauseam for those who disagree) and will remove myself from this thread.

Hello everyone. Thanks for the comments. I don’t want to get involved in left or right, this , in my opinion is beyond left or right or blaming or arguing.
I posted on AIBU because I had hoped to bring more parents some awareness of what is going on with their children.
while we are all arguing and being right or left or don’t like megyn’s background,
our kids are being encouraged to think they are born in the wrong body and only massive doses of untested hormones and surgery can help.
Am I living in a sci if film? We need to tackle this issue. We can argue left and right and blame later.
My daughter has been peruseded to go non contact with us, her parents, to live with her partner and her parents.
These parents have given their child puberty blockers and testosterone. Now at 18 she has massive shoulders, soft skin, beautiful eyes, delicate feet and a beard. People stare, obviously - she has a feminine aura even if she has blue hair and an army jacket. she is self conscious and believes that the heterosexual world is out to get her and always has been against trans people.
That’s massive. Her mum drinks too much, everyone is angry and miserable, blaming everyone else for their misery and seeing themselves as a victim.
And my daughter thinks that’s ok.
My daughter was socially affirmed at the school by a well meaning teacher who thought he was doing what the guidelines recommended. Her mental health suffered hugely and the school referred her to the LGBT counselor.
She looked at the girls and thought she could only be false eyelash straight hair girl which she didn’t feel she could achieve. - just look at tik toks by schoolgirls. There is a LOT of pressure.
So she thought the only alternative was to be a trans person. There was no shades of grey, the teacher assured me it was a fashion - like goth or punk.
But it’s not is it?
She could have worn DMs and been an art student, but directed by responsible adults, she is now mentally in a massively difficult place ( I believe - she has cut us off) and is now taking testosterone because she hates her female form.
Please stop arguing about what is left and what is right, because the chances of this happening to your child, or a child you know is increasing rapidly.

There are 48.5, thousand kids on just one detrans subreddit. Their stories are horrific. We need to make more mums - all mums-aware, that this starts with pronouns.

Genspect can say all this much better than I can.

thank you.

This was posted on feminism chat, not on one of the parenting threads

Nope.

Hi Alison. I posted it on AIBU to try and get traffic for mums, to create some awareness of what is happening to their children.
mumsnet moved it to the feminist board, but I don’t think it’s a feminist issue. I think it’s an issue that ALL parents need to be aware of.
Unless you are directly affected, you very possibly will think - as I did- that this is another fad.
there are some teens for who it is a fad.
There are others who are sucked in and buying testosterone ( steroids) online, from a well known chain for 18 quid a week, no questions, no safeguarding.
thankyou.

Sorry Alison - I read your post wrongly!

No political affiliation should have a monopoly on the safeguarding of children. In a civilised society, we should all strive for this.