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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Christine and the Queens - at Glastonbury

156 replies

NotHavingIt · 26/06/2023 07:42

I'd never been fully aware of Christine and The Queens ( Heloise Letissier) before her set at Glastonbury on Saturday, but the complete performance of her new album was pretty phenomenal and worth a watch ( Link to BBC IPlayer below).

As I understand it she has recently 'come out' as a transman and sometimes now uses the stage name of 'Redcar'. Up until recently she has been experimenting and performing as a woman playing with 'masculine tropes'.

She has been in a relationship with a woman called 'Ocean' who has herself now transitioned - but in her case she has documented, on French TV, her transition journey, involving recovery from a mastectomy and the use of testosterone ( she was a good looking woman, not so much as a man).

Heloise says, in an interview I've read, that people keep suggesting to her ways she could do 'being a transman' better - by which she assumes they mean 'top surgery', hormones and cutting her hair short and so on - but she has held back because she says she doesn't feel the need to do all of that to explore her 'transness'. Good on her, and hopefully she holds out on that.

Her performance at Glastonbury was extraordinary. True art; although at times just a little bit mental. It involves numerous interior monologues as she documents her recent experiences ( and traumas) around her mother dying, her mental health struggles, suicide ideation, sex, and finally her re-birth as a boy.

She strips off her waistcoat near the beginning of the set to reveal intact breasts ( I was getting nervous that would not be the case at that point) but with her nipples covered with plasters ( this must have been on BBC guidance, as I think a public display of nipples on a woman is what is considered offensive, whereas not for a man). She performed the rest of the set topless.

So much food for thought and reflection on the back of this stage set - but as peice of complete art it was pretty amazing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0ft6v6z

BBC Music - Glastonbury, 2023, Christine and the Queens

A charismatic and mesmerising performance of electro-pop goodness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0ft6v6z

OP posts:
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Pinkrosedressforsummer · 26/06/2023 21:26

She sounds deeply tedious and self absorbed.

IClaudine · 26/06/2023 21:28

Pinkrosedressforsummer · 26/06/2023 21:26

She sounds deeply tedious and self absorbed.

I guess he might be self absorbed, many musicians are. He is very much not tedious though.

WhereAreWeNow · 26/06/2023 21:39

Agree @namitynamechange - the creative world is the right place for pushing boundaries. I'm just not enjoying the new stuff.

booksandbrooks · 26/06/2023 21:44

heartsinvisiblefury · 26/06/2023 08:23

Why in 2023 can Lewis Capaldi have his nipples on full display but this person has to cover them up with plasters?

It's almost as if this trans man's nipples aren't male enough to be on display. Grin

BCCoach · 26/06/2023 21:55

RealityFan · 26/06/2023 11:15

Can we just have a NO FUCKING NIPPLES PLEASE! policy. Men, NB, women, trans, alien invaders etc.

I think, possibly, rock and roll isn’t your bag if you don’t want to see nipples. Or maybe stick with the Coldplay end of the scale rather than say, Nashville Pussy or Maneskin.

RealityFan · 26/06/2023 21:58

BCCoach · 26/06/2023 21:55

I think, possibly, rock and roll isn’t your bag if you don’t want to see nipples. Or maybe stick with the Coldplay end of the scale rather than say, Nashville Pussy or Maneskin.

I'm a Rush and Genesis fan. No nipples there back in the day. Unless some slipped past the loose fitting kimonos.

purplepencilcase · 26/06/2023 22:01

I was only thinking the today how great it was that she was obviously very masculine but had stayed an intact woman, reminding us all that women come in all shapes and sizes.. I'm pretty disappointed she's now saying she's a transman.
I still love her so much though!!!

Gizzey · 26/06/2023 22:07

I’m gutted she’s doing all this transitioning shite. She is an amazing performer and I loved her playing around with gender stereotypes and subverting them. She was so fresh.

Pretending to change sex is the antithesis of this in my opinion. Disappointing.

JaneJeffer · 26/06/2023 22:10

@NotHavingIt you seem easily offended

BCCoach · 26/06/2023 22:11

RealityFan · 26/06/2023 21:58

I'm a Rush and Genesis fan. No nipples there back in the day. Unless some slipped past the loose fitting kimonos.

Peter Gabriel frequently got shirt off (or bodice or flower costume or whatever he happened to be wearing).

kafkascastle · 26/06/2023 22:35

It was an extraordinary performance. Very thought provoking, as you say, OP.

baggiesmalls · 26/06/2023 22:38

baggiesmalls · 26/06/2023 20:41

I saw 👀 iffy pops performance on "the white room" in the 90s which his transparent trousers .

I had to have a lie down . 😂

I should however quantify that with at least we could tell which gender he was iout of the two there were beck then .....

RealityFan · 26/06/2023 22:40

BCCoach · 26/06/2023 22:11

Peter Gabriel frequently got shirt off (or bodice or flower costume or whatever he happened to be wearing).

He did indeed. He also donned a giant fox's head on stage. Mercifully, he didn't claim he was Vulpine gender.

baggiesmalls · 26/06/2023 22:42

I'm going to
Compare this to the latest Friday of the live performance a few months back when a man with tits who identified as female played a set then whipped his Willy out for a last bash on the piano before running naked off stage

I see no difference.
Christine and the queens - was female now male whips out tits

Bloke was male now female whips out cock .

All fucking barking mad . Tho I did think Christine and her queens were more talented .

Randommother · 27/06/2023 07:08

she has an amazing voice, and incredible vocal energy, but I felt like I was watching a mental health breakdown on stage.

Littlesprouts · 27/06/2023 07:34

It's almost as if this trans man's nipples aren't male enough to be on display.

Does anyone know if Chris covered them up on tour in solo shows or would have been allowed to perform topless?

Would it have been allowed at Glasto or would it be some kind of public order thing? Or would being covered be a condition of being televised on the BBC?

All relevant questions and for Chris to comply knows they ultimately know which way the bread is buttered - having to compromise in a way it's clear a man would not.

BCCoach · 27/06/2023 08:39

Littlesprouts · 27/06/2023 07:34

It's almost as if this trans man's nipples aren't male enough to be on display.

Does anyone know if Chris covered them up on tour in solo shows or would have been allowed to perform topless?

Would it have been allowed at Glasto or would it be some kind of public order thing? Or would being covered be a condition of being televised on the BBC?

All relevant questions and for Chris to comply knows they ultimately know which way the bread is buttered - having to compromise in a way it's clear a man would not.

I noticed that Vic from Manneskin kept covered up too so maybe a condition of being televised. Of course no problem with Damiano being taps aff. There will have been plenty of nudity in some of the more niche non-televised sets. Don’t think the BBC will be televising Wargasm any time soon…

Littlesprouts · 27/06/2023 09:17

I stand corrected BCCoach! How odd. Unless it's part of his aesthetic. Yes I did think people have been milling about in the buff at festivals since Woodstock, guess it must be the televisation of it causing people to cover up. A bigger pay day I suppose.

RealityFan · 27/06/2023 09:32

Haha, can one misgender someone's cleavage (as my old mum termed 'em)? Lol.

LaBefana · 27/06/2023 09:57

RealityFan · 27/06/2023 09:32

Haha, can one misgender someone's cleavage (as my old mum termed 'em)? Lol.

Isn't that called 'moobs'?

RealityFan · 27/06/2023 10:15

LaBefana · 27/06/2023 09:57

Isn't that called 'moobs'?

Can't a guy get ANY privacy?!

NotHavingIt · 27/06/2023 10:15

BCCoach · 27/06/2023 08:39

I noticed that Vic from Manneskin kept covered up too so maybe a condition of being televised. Of course no problem with Damiano being taps aff. There will have been plenty of nudity in some of the more niche non-televised sets. Don’t think the BBC will be televising Wargasm any time soon…

Even when Victoria exposes her breasts on stage she always has nipple covering ( be it a glittery star, or whatever)

OP posts:
Littlesprouts · 27/06/2023 10:27

Ah oh dear I misgendered Vic 😂
This thread is making me feel ancient all round 😂

RealityFan · 27/06/2023 10:32

NotHavingIt · 27/06/2023 10:15

Even when Victoria exposes her breasts on stage she always has nipple covering ( be it a glittery star, or whatever)

What, so Christine doesn't offend her old nan?

Seriously, the snob/pretension is off the scale.

Get 'em out for the guys (and gals/trans/NBs), but effectively cover up just enough to act all mysterious and demure.

What MAN covers up their nipples?

I can't believe I just wrote that, lol.

BobDylansNipples · 27/06/2023 10:37

The times they are a- well, you know the rest.
(Not meaning to be defeatist).