Christine and the Queens - at Glastonbury

[NotHavingIt]

I'd never been fully aware of Christine and The Queens ( Heloise Letissier) before her set at Glastonbury on Saturday, but the complete performance of her new album was pretty phenomenal and worth a watch ( Link to BBC IPlayer below).

As I understand it she has recently 'come out' as a transman and sometimes now uses the stage name of 'Redcar'. Up until recently she has been experimenting and performing as a woman playing with 'masculine tropes'.

She has been in a relationship with a woman called 'Ocean' who has herself now transitioned - but in her case she has documented, on French TV, her transition journey, involving recovery from a mastectomy and the use of testosterone ( she was a good looking woman, not so much as a man).

Heloise says, in an interview I've read, that people keep suggesting to her ways she could do 'being a transman' better - by which she assumes they mean 'top surgery', hormones and cutting her hair short and so on - but she has held back because she says she doesn't feel the need to do all of that to explore her 'transness'. Good on her, and hopefully she holds out on that.

Her performance at Glastonbury was extraordinary. True art; although at times just a little bit mental. It involves numerous interior monologues as she documents her recent experiences ( and traumas) around her mother dying, her mental health struggles, suicide ideation, sex, and finally her re-birth as a boy.

She strips off her waistcoat near the beginning of the set to reveal intact breasts ( I was getting nervous that would not be the case at that point) but with her nipples covered with plasters ( this must have been on BBC guidance, as I think a public display of nipples on a woman is what is considered offensive, whereas not for a man). She performed the rest of the set topless.

So much food for thought and reflection on the back of this stage set - but as peice of complete art it was pretty amazing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0ft6v6z

Hey, the truth doesn't matter if the fantasy fits.

They also think sex work is work, so there's that too.

I don't experience gender because there no such actual thing. Lol

The reality is tho, is that sexism will start to affect them. Just like it always has. Scales start to fall as women become vulnerable due to childbirth and misplaced reliance on equality.

It's unavoidable.

Shedding personas who even had time in their busy life to ponder such nonsense?

Gender ideology is such a middle class privilege.

Thanks RealityFan appreciate that insight. Food for thought.

It's all so overcomplicated, though. It is not a natural way of seeing or processing the world - how could trying to deliberately mentally override everything your senses are telling you ever be?

She is a fascinating and truly original artist. The Bowie comparison is a very good one. I agree, she's definitely more of a performance artist than anything else now, although her music and accompanying videos, the earlier stuff particularly, are pop of the most sublime kind.

I do roll my eyes at the fact that she's using gender-identity stuff to express herself. Being charitable, you could say she's just using the current thinking/vocabulary, the way we all change the way we speak/think/add to the social conversation over time.
I suspect if she was calling herself a man, wanting to go topless etc in a time when this topic was less pervasive/inflammatory, I wouldn't be eye-rolling but would see it as just a part of her expressing herself and exploring as an artist. Although I guess she wouldn't be expressing herself in this way if this stuff WASN'T so pervasive at the moment...

And I like that she seems to be rejecting, or at least taking a critical view of, surgery, hormones and stereotyped things like short hair.

Yes I caught a bit of her performance and interestingly when asked, my DH reassured me that she was a genuine biological woman. It is shocking that we have to wonder and double check these days.

@RealityFan , your post about Gen Z feminism was brilliantly clear - thanks.

OP, I get your position. This is a really talented and interesting artist. I hope she snaps out of the pretending to be a man phase as it does women no favours. But I still love her music.

I wondered the same - not the Bowie analogy, though it's a good one, but that they might go full circle and return to identifying as a very powerful woman in time. Because they are such a consummate performer and so willing to fully explore what identity means to them without conforming to any pressure or stereotype from any source. I think they are one of the best performers of this generation and will be seen as such. I have a hunch they will come to embrace their female power at some point, and exploring masculinity is part of that process.

To be honest, I'd never seen her perform before ( or even been that conscious of her), and I wasn't entirely sure for quite some time what sex she was. Her voice was the most obvious give-away because it is pure female and really quite beautiful. But really, I wasn't 100% sure for quite a while.

She did an excellent and very convincing performance of 'masculinity' - in that rock star kind of way. It was fascinating to watch, because even performers like PJ Harvey who play rock guitar and are fantastic, expressive performers still don't capture 'male rock god' in that way.

Personally prefer to watch the smaller stages and see new acts or one's I'm not familiar with ,so didn't really watch any of the headliners, but thought Raye was great. So reminsicent of Amy Winehouse - which is still sad to think about.

Maneskin were great ( woodsies stage). A lot of fun. They also like to play about with non stereotypical gendered presentations - certainly as far as dress, costume, make up goes.

She says she has differnt names for differnt layers of herself - which seems valid - even if a little fragmented as a personality. (sic)

I work in a creative industry and even by the standards of some of the guff I've heard over the years this sounds wanky 😂

and while we're on the subject of Redcar, why not Red car? or voiture rouge as she's french?

and while we're on the subject of Redcar, why not Red car? or voiture rouge as she's french?

I believe it's connected to the death of her mother which has affected her profoundly and inspired the most recent work. In interviews Chris doesn't seem to be in the best mental health.

Interested to read your take, OP. That certainly adds to the mystique and otherworldliness of the act.

@RealityFan

Gen Z plus frustrated Gen X and Millennials will ensure a three term Labour govt

Don't forget boomers like me. A three-term Labour government would be brilliant.

I've seen Héloïse on Jools Holland a few times now and I love her performances; much to the amusement of my DH as I'm pretty dismissive of most modern music.
So pleased she's still working out what she wants regarding the "trans" part of her life.
Didn't see any of Glasto so will seek her performance out.

I enjoyed her performance but it's all getting far too confusing.

She was pansexual.

She was in a relationship with a woman who is now a man
And now she's a man in a relationship with that man who
Was a woman

So is she now a gay man ?

A straight man because his partner was a woman ?
A gay woman ?

It's all just hurts my head . I'd defend anyone's right to love or be in a relationship with whoever they like but can't we just stop with all this bloody nonsense.

So don't read it then or watch it. What they do doesn't affect you.

She has a beautiful voice and I wonder whether she is holding off from taking hormones because that would alter its sound forever. But if she’s resisting hormones and surgery for the reasons she says I hope any young fans of hers who have been considering permanent changes to their bodies are taking note.

So when a man changes gender to become a woman this board generally disapproves and wants to keep sex segregated spaces (rightly in my opinion)

But when a woman changes gender , dances topless on stage as a man , but with breasts , it's completely different?

I aren't interested in her sexuality or gender - I enjoy listening to her music .

I don't particularly want to see anyone's nipples at a music event . Male or female .

@baggiesmalls

I don't particularly want to see anyone's nipples at a music event . Male or female .

I saw a dreadful picture of Iggy Pop once. Now that was something you wouldn't want to look at.

But when a woman changes gender , dances topless on stage as a man ,

She's a woman, her performance is that of a woman.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻Fab post and so much more eloquent than my own.

If you really want an 😯 moment watch Flea at Woodstock 😁 Now, interestingly, if he had gone on stage in that ‘attire’ and declared himself a woman who would have genuinely gone along with it?

Hey, I'm a Boomer and eight times Tory voter, proudly GC. They don't get my vote next year unless something miraculous happens.

My definition of miracle is: following the EHRC recommended advice on sex > gender, and locked down policy to schools as per the Miriam Cates advice on gender ID.

How does the death of her mother reflect that she now likes to called after a NE town?

I understand the red car inspiration on the death of her mother, but don't see why she isn't calling herself red car (2 separate words) or voiture rouge as she is (and presumably her mother was also) French?

BTW I like Christine and the Queens and think she has a great voice, I just don't get the NE town thing 😂