Teenager guilty of murder.

[placemats]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

Apart from the fact that she was raped, if consent to sex is to be a legal term, I find the prosecutions allegations appalling.

'But the prosecution alleged Mayo must have known she was pregnant but chose to deliberately conceal it because she was always planning to kill the baby.'

Perhaps Mayo didn't get early abortion help she needed. I know of one woman, who had 3 previous children, who didn't realise she was pregnant, thought it was early menopause until 4 weeks before her due date. However to allege she was always planning to kill the baby is a step too far. It intimates that those in authority know this child's mind.

In the case of teenage stabbings and murder, the teenagers are sent to a youth prison and charged as youths and not adults.

This case was brought before the court when Mayo was 19, four years after the event happened.

FunkyBuddha85 · Today 10:32
Whilst this is an absolutely tragic situation I wish people would stop calling her a child. 15 is not a child, adolescent yes but well on the way to adulthood. At 15 my mum left her home town and loved to London by herself. At 15 I was mature and travelled by myself.
At that age you know right from wrong. You certainly know killing is wrong.
I have sympathy for the girl. I can't imagine the fear she felt. But she was not a child.

I think many of us travelled around alone when we were fifteen. It also used to be the school leaving age and go out to work age even as late as the mid 1960s.

The law recognises the killing of a child as either Infanticide or Murder, with the former taking account of the state of mind of a mother who has just given birth - of ANY AGE including double this girl’s age.

The jury decided this girl got the worse charge of murder even though, in other cases of new born baby killing, mothers ( including older ones) have been charged with Infanticide.

The Law also says 15 is a child. That is the Law, not people on this thread.

It is also now known that the brain has not matured fully before about 25.

I think as a society we truly underestimate the mental impact of pregnancy and childbirth on many women (and in this case, girls.) What happened was horrendous but I don’t believe any woman who has just given birth should be charged with murder when they kill their baby, it should always be infanticide.

And those saying would we be saying the same if it was a teenage boy? Well no, it is not the same because boys cannot be pregnant or give birth, it is NOT the same.

And those saying would we be saying the same if it was a teenage boy? Well no, it is not the same because boys cannot be pregnant or give birth, it is NOT the same.

This is obtuse. We know boys don't give birth.

If a boy committed rape, murder, or any other crime, who would say 'he's just a child, he doesn't need a criminal record'?

This infuriates me.

A child (with a difficult home life) was sexually active at thirteen.
She became pregnant and was in denial of her pregnancy, which she managed to hide.
She gave birth alone, aged fifteen. Still a child.
She killed her baby. From her point of view, what else could she do? She did what countless numbers of young mothers have done in the past.

This is clearly infanticide, not murder.

And there should be absolute, all-encompassing compassion for the little girl who did this even if she is now nineteen years old.

Me too!

Nobody has said she doesn’t need a criminal record.

Terribly sad, I was shocked that she was originally charged with murder, for the jury to find her guilty of that rather than infanticide is appalling. She needs help, not retribution.

If it was a case of a teenager father trying to care for a baby, would anybody say 'he's just a child, poor boy' if he'd hurt the baby in any way? Not even murder, just hurt it? Of course not.

And yes, someone has said she doesn't need a criminal record.

It’s a false equivalency. He wouldn’t have the physical and mental trauma of giving birth.

Fuck her, she violently murdered a child.

This man was only convicted of manslaughter: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-64770538 despite having already dug his wife's grave before he killed her.

I've tried but I can only feel compassion for that 15 year old. It should never have happened, she was failed by everyone around her. And that poor baby paid the cost.

I also think it should have been infanticide. She was a 15 year old. Living in a home with a terminally ill, abusive father.

Newborn babies can get fractured skulls from hitting the floor at birth. Whatever happened, its infanticide and she should be treated with compassion.

A boy doesnt have the mental trauma of giving birth but he also doesnt get the rush of hormones that usually ensure a mother wants to protect and care for her child. He would be as likely, if not more likely (because girls mature faster) to panic.

Many women don’t get that ‘rush’ either.

15 is still a child, albeit a teenager. She deserves to not have her entire life destroyed. Nonetheless, she has to do significant time both to give justice to the newborn that she killed and as a deterrent. I hope the judge both gives her a sensible sentence, so she is out while still young, and allows her to do her time in an open prison.

However, there was little compassion for Jamie Bugler’s killers, despite them being much younger and one having significant learning needs. Of course, the circumstances were different but they were dealt with in an adult court, being 10 and 11 years old.

@anyolddinosaur

That shite nonsense that girls mature faster.

Next you'll be saying she looked older for her age. Men can't be held accountable for knowing what age a teenager is when having sex with a 13 year old, cause she looked 16.

At what age should a man mature? 60/70?

That's exactly what just happened in Scotland - having been found guilty of repeatedly raping a thirteen-year-old he was given a sentence of 170 hours of community service.

Oops, it was 270 hours: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65424028

And that's stupid and completely inappropriate. That is not justice for the victim, it's insulting.

The difference is that nobody said it should happen because 'he's only young, his brain inst developed, he doesn't need a criminal record'.

We all know it's outrageous and not acceptable for such a serious crime, as is the case here.

Expect the judge, obviously. But it just shows how outrageous that line of thinking is, that young people can't be criminally responsible. Whether rape of killing of an infant, the punishment needs to fit the crime.

We all know that @BMustard @anyolddinosaur and @AllOfThemWitches have declared themselves to be not at all sympathetic to teenage girls once they 'mature' enough and that they should all know better.

You are all devoid of any sympathy and empathy and have clearly missed out on life. Obsessed and sad all of you.

Except Shamina Begum kept on committing crimes for the next four years including building bomb vests, sewing them onto teenagers, patrolling with a rifle and shooting/beating up civilians, and keeping Yazidi girls as slaves for her husband to rape and her to beat.

She only “stopped” when she was 19 and realised ISIS was doomed and in her own words ‘it wasn’t fun anymore’.

placemats · Today 10:59
In the case of teenage stabbings and murder, the teenagers are sent to a youth prison and charged as youths and not adults.

This case was brought before the court when Mayo was 19, four years after the event happened

Possiblt the jury treated her as if she had just committed the crime, and as if
she were 19.

Added to that she seems to have a jaded non- innocent look, for which she may have been unfairly judged by the jury, instead of them wondering what on earth had been happening to her for her to seem that way.

Look at how many posters on this thread cannot assimilate the fact that no one is saying she did not commit this crime!

Those showing some sympathy for her are just saying she should be charged with the crime of a mother murdering her new born baby called ‘Infanticide’ under the Law, - like other women who murdered their own new born baby have been - not with the other charge called ‘Murder’ which might apply in other circumstances.

Yet people on here can’t get the difference between the legal term infanticide and the legal term murder. They are stuck with murder is murder, and this girl is extra evil.

@AP5Diva

Do you think that controlling a person in a relationship, emotionally, financially and physically should be a crime?