Teenager guilty of murder.

[placemats]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/teenager-guilty-baby-herefordshire-hide-pregnancy-paris-mayo

Apart from the fact that she was raped, if consent to sex is to be a legal term, I find the prosecutions allegations appalling.

'But the prosecution alleged Mayo must have known she was pregnant but chose to deliberately conceal it because she was always planning to kill the baby.'

Perhaps Mayo didn't get early abortion help she needed. I know of one woman, who had 3 previous children, who didn't realise she was pregnant, thought it was early menopause until 4 weeks before her due date. However to allege she was always planning to kill the baby is a step too far. It intimates that those in authority know this child's mind.

https://theconversation.com/courts-must-stop-judging-women-who-kill-their-babies-as-morally-good-or-bad-57829

This is an interesting article about research into infanticide.

As much as it is easy to label people as ‘good’ and ‘evil’ that is not a reflection of what is understood or known about this thankfully rare event.

Heartbreaking story. Poor baby, poor woman, poor family.

If this woman is sentenced for 'murder', surely they will take into account her age at the time?

Given the extra leniency shown to, for example, Rhys Bennett who viciously raped and murdered a woman in Aberdeen, aged 23.

Yes, she was young but that doesn’t mean she should be absolved from responsibility or that, being young, she can do no wrong. The jury deliberated for more than 8hrs. She knew she was pregnant as she apparently asked a hypothetical question to her mother. Her family would have been supportive, they say. There’s no suggestion she was raped.

The level of violence was extreme. One article suggested she stood or stamped on the baby’s head. It makes me feel physically ill thinking of what she did. Stanley was alive for one or two hours. He cried. She viciously assaulted him, and when she realised he was still alive, she stuffed cotton wool so far down his throat it had to be retrieved with tweezers. Then she dumped him on the doorstep to be put out with the rubbish.

No doubt she’ll get a shorter sentence due to her age (and support too, I hope) but what she did was awful. The option to find her guilty of murder wouldn’t have been there if it was ‘normal’ infanticide.

Sorry am I reading this right? You had an abortion because you feared a third miscarriage??

She could have abandoned the baby somewhere he could have been found. She could have told her parents and had an abortion. There was no suggestion of rape, although legally it may have been.

The maximum sentence for infanticide is 5 years but wikipedia says its often a non custodial sentence. For an under 18 the sentence will likely be 12 years. Something inbetween would seem more appropriate. I would have preferred to see a charge of manslaughter with diminished responsibility.

What a tragic story.
She was a child, below the age of consent, so it absolutely was rape, albeit statutory. How terrified must she have been, giving birth alone.
So has the male rapist been tried and convicted accordingly or is it just the female child that was raped and endured an unwanted pregnancy and childbirth, and subsequently made a decision she will regret for life, who is being punished.
It serves no purpose sending this poor girl to prison, I hope she is supported.
RIP to the baby who is innocent in all of this.

Her body, her choice.

Under s 1 of the Infanticide Act 1938, (as amended by s 57 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009), infanticide can apply where a woman:

• by any wilful act or omission;
• causes the death of her child who is aged under 12 months;
• but at the time of the act or omission the balance of her mind was disturbed by reason of her not having fully recovered from the effect of giving birth to the child;
• or by reason of the effect of lactation caused by the birth of the child then;
• notwithstanding that the circumstances were such that, but for this Act, the offence would have amounted to murder;
• she shall be guilty of an offence of infanticide; and
• may for such an offence be dealt with and punished as if she had been guilty of the offence of manslaughter of the child.

... Some feel the law surrounding infanticide should be abolished with the defence of diminished responsibility applying to this situation also. This has however, been rejected by both the Law Commission and the government as it is felt that in certain situations a mother who has killed her baby after giving birth in a clandestine environment – often very young mothers – would be unable to successfully plead diminished responsibility where the burden of proof rests with the defendant.

https://www.claims.co.uk/knowledge-base/court-proceedings/infanticide-and-criminal-law

Just a quick google shows that women who have killed their babies, sometimes at 10 weeks, one a 34 year old women who threw her baby over a balcony, have been charged with infanticide.

I am not questioning that it seems to have been a violent death, but the charge of infanticide is an acknowledgement of the impact of giving birth on a woman. See quote above about young women giving birth in clandestine situations.

I am not sure why the jury was left to decide if it was murder or infanticide. The CPS should know in presenting the case.

As comments on this thread have shown, have a personal opinion about something, isn't the same as taking a decision based on a legal framework. And is for example, why some people think that juries should have training prior to hearing a rape case, or as in Scotland are thinking a legal rather than a personal decision in rape cases should only be taken by a judjge.

Hopefullly there will be an appeal.

If they thought he was crying then why did they not intervene sooner. Were they awake listening to her giving birth? A child of 15 giving birth?

Two previous miscarriages at 12 weeks, and two previous live births. The fifth pregnancy was exactly like the miscarriages. I was going to miscarriage, blood loss, enormous, and up to three days in hospital. I rightly choose to abort. My body, my choice.

I'm absolutely appalled at this conviction. I can't imagine giving birth alone at 15 years old. Especially when she realise, or more likely didn't accept she was pregnant. Apparently she gave birth silently because she didn't want her family to hear. Her dad was terminally ill at the time and she was scared of him, and didn't want to bother her family.
There was no one in her life she felt she could ask for help.
She must have been terrified.
She almost certainly wasn't in her right mind at the time.

I don't understand how she could have concealed her pregnancy. If she went to school, or to college, surely it would have been noticed?

Prescottdanni123

What she did was murder. Teenager or not. They can't be seen to go easy on her or they will have other women opting to just kill the baby when it pops out instead of seeking an abortion.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Concealing your pregnancy, giving birth alone in silence, and then killing your newborn is not an easy alternative to abortion.

Women who do this are not acting rationally, and will not be weighing the relative likelihood of a conviction for murder as opposed to infanticide.

I wish I had the moral certitude of many pps. I know that what she did was terribly wrong but I cannot find it within me to condemn her.

that's quite heartless.
She was 15 and she was probably completely in denial, didn't see it as a baby because of the denial, and then in panic.

Yes, it was an awful awful thing to do, and I'd really like to know (vindictiveness??) why the jury didn't go for infanticide. And compare to people who said that Greta Thunberg couldn't possibly know anything about anything at 15. Picky and choosy.

I hope she gets some trauma councelling instead of a custodial sentence

This.

I was also impregnated in bad circumstances.

I did not have access to abortion.

Unlike this girl, I didn't have a loving family and seriously feared for my safety to the point I contemplated suicide.

I still managed not to murder a baby.

The valid choices are seek an abortion within 24 weeks (6 months).

Or leave the born child in the care of somebody else.

It's very easy to feel sympathy when you're reading words on a screen and not seeing the physical killing of a born child. Through stuffing cotton in its mouth and possibly an intentional head injury.

She gave birth at home alone, aged 15, without medical help, having concealed her pregnancy and apparently been in denial even to herself about being pregnant. I find it hard to contemplate how the balance of her mind could NOT have been disturbed in those circumstances and don't understand why infanticide or manslaughter due to diminished responsibility didn't apply instead.

Totally different, this woman killed her baby, Begum joined a terrorist group…

I've been following this trial and I too would like to understand the legalities - why the charge was not a straight infanticide.

It's a heartbreaking story but not really something where you need to have a sentence to deter others or to keep the public safe.

All of the above really.

The family didn’t hear her giving birth. They didn’t know anything about it until the teen’s mother found the blood-soaked bin bag on the front step. The fact Stanley was born alive, lived for one or two hours, and cried were determined from the post-mortem. Poor little baby 😓

@Mixedberrygenderfluidmuffin

Not so long ago, a woman got sentenced for lying about how far along she was to abort a baby that was nearly at full term. That isn't much difference from this. This was an adult woman who did have the option of a legal abortion within the time limit but chose not to take it. So for whatever reason, some women don't want to go down the abortion route. So no, we shouldn't be condoning someone killing their baby within an hour or two of it being born, no matter what the circumstances are.

Her dad was terminally ill at the time and she was scared of him,

God, it just gets worse.

I've been reading a bit more about this case. Did she really inflict injuries consistent with him being stamped on?! And when that didn't work stuff cotton wool in his mouth?

Im undecided whether she needs jail or a psychiatric unit.