Page 9 | Glinner calling women "handmaidens"

ftmquestions · 2023-06-21T21:34:16+00:00

Respect to glinner for speaking up but does anyone else consider his use of the term "handmaiden" grating? I don't like men calling women sexist names because they don't agree with him. Not one to criticise usually, cba with purity politics etc - and he can say what he likes - but I just wondered if I was alone in this making me bristle slightly

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 11:46

Handmaiden is also quite an ironic witty reversal type of term when used by gender critical women, which is clever when used in context. It harks back to a patriarchal historical portrayal of faceless female acolytes, serving and enabling and rightfully abasing themselves for some godlike and usually male being. Nurses (female obviously) used to be called (male) doctors’ handmaidens FFS
It does seem an appropriate term for the servile witlessness of men and women (men as well!) who are debasing themselves for the cause.
Its not an appropriate term for aggressive TRAs because that is not how handmaidens behave.

SerafinasGoose · 23/06/2023 11:48

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 11:46

Handmaiden is also quite an ironic witty reversal type of term when used by gender critical women, which is clever when used in context. It harks back to a patriarchal historical portrayal of faceless female acolytes, serving and enabling and rightfully abasing themselves for some godlike and usually male being. Nurses (female obviously) used to be called (male) doctors’ handmaidens FFS
It does seem an appropriate term for the servile witlessness of men and women (men as well!) who are debasing themselves for the cause.
Its not an appropriate term for aggressive TRAs because that is not how handmaidens behave.

Indeed.

But as to the #BeKind mantra adopted by those 'allies' who support the aggressive activists to their own and other women's detriment, and then admonish those women who object ...

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 11:49

And I think Glinner has earned his stripes to use handmaiden if that wasn’t clear

IneedanewTV · 23/06/2023 11:59

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 11:49

And I think Glinner has earned his stripes to use handmaiden if that wasn’t clear

Exactly.

CurlewKate · 23/06/2023 12:14

@SerafinasGoose "The term 'handmaiden' used in this context is obviously a backward slide - the reasoning that if you're fucking a man you're a a 'handmaiden to the patriarchy'"

I would agree with you -if that's what the term "handmaiden" meant. But it doesn't. However much 3rd wave feminists want to make it mean that.

ItsFunToBeAVampire · 23/06/2023 12:21

Grimbelina · 23/06/2023 09:26

DemiColon

Most women who support gender ideology do so because they think it's right.

Where is the evidence of this? I know many women who are TWAW. Many of these actually really don't care about other women or children, people with less power (despite claiming otherwise), they just care about moving up a power structure, succeeding at any cost. They will jump on any bandwagon if they see it as a way to further themselves... and consequently many are very successful and in spheres where they have huge influence.

They are morally bankrupt and those who are very publicly TWAW etc. need to shore up these beliefs or they will lose status if/when the beliefs attached to the power structures change. This is what Glinner is up against in the media and this why his career has been destroyed.

I actually have more sympathy for those who genuinely hold these beliefs as they have been captured... although you would hope that once they realise the damage these beliefs do to women and children etc. that they would change direction.

Handmaiden seems a good shorthand for both groups but probably more deserved by the former.

I saw a tweet this morning that mentioned communal narcissism earlier today and found it interesting and fits with what you say.

https://twitter.com/xxclusionary/status/1672125706610913281

SerafinasGoose · 23/06/2023 12:28

CurlewKate · 23/06/2023 12:14

@SerafinasGoose "The term 'handmaiden' used in this context is obviously a backward slide - the reasoning that if you're fucking a man you're a a 'handmaiden to the patriarchy'"

I would agree with you -if that's what the term "handmaiden" meant. But it doesn't. However much 3rd wave feminists want to make it mean that.

My post might well not have made it clear: I know it doesn't mean that. But as you say, in recent discussions seen on MN it's seemingly being interpreted as such.

CurlewKate · 23/06/2023 12:36

@SerafinasGoose Many apologies-I misunderstood you.

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 13:23

Eh what? I’m confused. Has the language moved on for ‘handmaiden’? Thought the GC crowd were all for keeping language categories as stable as possible. What’s it got to do with fucking?!

SerafinasGoose · 23/06/2023 13:24

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 13:23

Eh what? I’m confused. Has the language moved on for ‘handmaiden’? Thought the GC crowd were all for keeping language categories as stable as possible. What’s it got to do with fucking?!

There's a link above to a thread by Posie Parker, in which she claims she had been accused (by radical feminists) of pandering to the patriarchy because she's heterosexual.

AlisonDonut · 23/06/2023 13:29

Can I point out that there isn't a GC crowd.

There are people who believe in the concept of a gender identity for whatever reason and there is the rest of humanity.

mirax · 23/06/2023 13:37

lechiffre55 · 23/06/2023 09:11

Does anyone else here sort of feel proud of the word TERF? Like every time I hear the phrase "TERF Island" referring to the UK, as a resident of the UK I feel proud I live here, and how well women here are defending their rights and not being wheesht by the "useful idiots".
I know TERF is meant to be derogatory, but like the N word I feel it's been reclaimed by the people it's meant to demean and changed from something negative into a postitive, a word that represents solidarity between strong women who refuse to be cast as passive powerless victims.
For example David Lammy calling women "dinosaurs hoarding rights like eggs" resulting in women right's campaigners hilariously running around London in dinosaur costumes with armfuls of colourful eggs mocking his ignorant egotistical proclamation. It shows the remarkable strength and courage of women facing the the loss of their rights responding with great spirit and humour to an out of touch moronic politician who has no grasp of the situation and who couldn't care less about uterus havers who don't submit and conform to his view of how menstruators should behave and think. Women turning something very negative and condescending right around into a positive and joyous message through great character. Elaine Miller flashing a merkin in Hollyrood in protest is another example of grabbing the headlines with humour and wit, popping the pomposity of the now disgraced Herr Sturgeon of Lightfingers, once owner of the grandest luxury motorhome North of the Clyde.
Compare that to the agression, intimidation and violence of those who use the word TERF as a slur. Drenching themselves in piss, playing piano with their cock, jugging their fake tits on the Whitehouse lawn, the lack of humour, the despising of humour and comedy, the need to involve children in their every sexual fantasy. It's very clear to me that the TERFs are the ones with wit, humour, honesty, and heart, and being called a TERF by these vile people seems to me one of the greatest positive endorsements and sign of good character that it's possible to get.
I am so proud to live on TERF Island, thank you ladies for all that you do.

Terf is a badge of honour. Take a bow all ye wonderful women of MN and the UK.

BezMills · 23/06/2023 13:56

I'm for sure not a TERF but why would I believe in Gender? I don't need a Gender, I don't want a Gender. No thank you.

I mean if I was forced to choose at gunpoint, I'd choose Lego Gender, I assume that's a thing, right?

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 17:03

Alison you’re quite right of course. I just meant the more visible GC people but you make an important point!

Slothtoes · 23/06/2023 17:11

Thanks Serafina. OK fine. So a very narrow view of only some radical separatists. Fine for any woman to have nothing to do with men sexually or otherwise if that’s not for her, obviously. Any judging of other women’s preferences because they do choose to have relationships with men can be safely ignored.
For me, that judging doesn’t do anything to change the meaning of ‘handmaiden’ as used in context to describe the TRA acolytes.

BaronMunchausen · 23/06/2023 17:21

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

One obviously was sarcasm, while the other wasn't. The referent for Linehan's verbal irony was the frequent public death-threats and murderous language used by TRAs - the "decapitate Terfs" sign being just one example.

AlisonDonut · 23/06/2023 18:54

Soon they will be arresting actors for telling each other to Break a Leg...literal violence...

Florissante · 23/06/2023 18:58

The saying in Italian for "good luck" is "boca di lupo" (literally, wolf's mouth). Of course Italians are literally hoping that other people are eaten by wolves.

itsmylife7 · 23/06/2023 19:15

Team Graham all the way here.

Bosky · 24/06/2023 02:14

FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans · 23/06/2023 00:45

@Signalbox here are a couple of sources for the details of the ban - it wasn't covered as much as his first couple of bans:
https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/04/16/anti-trans-graham-linehan-suspended-twitter-again/
https://www.cityam.com/graham-linehan-aka-glinner-banned-from-twitter-again/

The short version is that they were counter-protesters who had turned up to oppose a Posie Parker rally (who for further context is a terf who is known for praising and sharing her platform with openly far-right groups).

@ftmquestions "...it seems that his respect for women is conditional on whether they agree with him or not" is indeed an apt summary of his approach. His attitude seems to be that if you're not with him then you're against him, and if you're against him he seems all too happy to presume your motives and your role in the vast and highly-coordinated conspiracy which he believes he is fighting against. @DemiColon that everyone who disagrees with him is "disingenuous about their motives", that's a good way of putting it.

Whenever I see posts like that, and thankfully they are few and far between on Mumsnet, I breath a sigh of relief that I'm reading them on a computer screen and not on paper. The idea that trees might have been sacrificed to enable publication of such garbage would make me very depressed.

Good luck with posting Prick News links on Mumsnet FWR. Lurking on here since 2018, you say? Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

"never really joined as I wasn't then a mum" - you either joined or you didn't, there's no such thing as "unreally joining Mumsnet".

You are now a mum? Are you saying you are female? Only females can be mothers.

If you are a male calling yourself a mum you deserve to be hog-tied and winched down into a pit of ravening transwidows!

PorcelinaV · 24/06/2023 02:44

DemiColon · 22/06/2023 23:53

It's vanishingly rare that women who support any of the things that get them called "handmaidens" say they are doing so in order to support or pander to men specifically. Or even that they are somehow trying to undermine women's rights.

There is a difference between saying, "I think your views on X are undermining women's rights" and "you are trying to screw women over."

Most women who support gender ideology do so because they think it's right. They don't think they are doing anything against women.

There are cases occasionally when a particular individual is clearly doing something with really compromised motives, and it may be appropriate to point that out. But by calling women handmaidens it's essentially saying they are being disingenuous about their motives. And that's a manipulative kind of argument we see here all the time.

I don't like it when people are quick to label the other side as being dishonest, or having impure motives, because I think you mostly need to focus on arguments and not the people making them.

However, when it's something as crazy as "TWAW", I think it's pretty natural to be looking for explanations as to why people might say that without really believing it.

As far as including trans women in women’s spaces, sure, they may genuinely believe in it.

Although an honest approach would be, "OK they aren't really women, but I still think they should be allowed in women’s spaces because...".

CliantheLang · 24/06/2023 05:35

SerafinasGoose · 23/06/2023 13:24

There's a link above to a thread by Posie Parker, in which she claims she had been accused (by radical feminists) of pandering to the patriarchy because she's heterosexual.

Show quote history

Radical feminism is a distinct branch of feminism. Has its own philosophy and everything. It doesn't mean a feminist who happens to disagree with you on something.

Posie has many friends who are radical feminists. Julia Long, Kara Dansky and Sheila Jeffreys, come to mind.

Andrea Dworkin's writings are all online and are easy to read if anyone's interested.

http://radfem.org/dworkin/

The Complete Works of Andrea Dworkin

The Complete Works Of Andrea Dworkin are now available in pdf, epub and kindle formats. Non-Fiction Woman Hating Heartbreak: The Political Memoir of a Feminist Militant Intercourse Letters F…

http://radfem.org/dworkin

EdithStourton · 24/06/2023 07:37

@FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans it's really not friendly to call a woman a 'terf'.

It just makes you sound like a misogynist, which won't play well on this board.

Abhannmor · 24/06/2023 08:09

AlisonDonut · 23/06/2023 13:29

Can I point out that there isn't a GC crowd.

There are people who believe in the concept of a gender identity for whatever reason and there is the rest of humanity.

Although it could be a good title for Glinner's next series.
The GC Crowd . In which a bunch of hapless nerds try to navigate the alphabet soup of the new ID politics. And often fail with hilarious consequences! And the task of the GC Crowd is to deprogamme them. Or something.

OK it'll need work.

Slothtoes · 24/06/2023 08:30

Yes! I like it! Riff more Abhammor