Glinner calling women "handmaidens"

[ftmquestions]

Respect to glinner for speaking up but does anyone else consider his use of the term "handmaiden" grating? I don't like men calling women sexist names because they don't agree with him. Not one to criticise usually, cba with purity politics etc - and he can say what he likes - but I just wondered if I was alone in this making me bristle slightly

I like your post, @BellaAmorosa.

I came back to this thread to observe that's it's really just another long, wittering complaint about terfs not being nice enough. Thanks, but we're already aware of insistent instructions to #BeKind. Kind, that is, to people who deny the existence of a female sex in humans, see women as faulty males, assert that children have gendered souls and should be sterilised if their soul doesn't like their body, are working to remove all women's rights and, in many cases, promote paedophilia.

Fuck that.
No.

It's nothing to do with that. It's about whether a man should be using sex-based insults to women he disagrees with in the name of women's rights.

Yes, it's fine.
Next question?

Mike drop!!!

"Posie Parker rally (who for further context is a terf who is known for praising and sharing her platform with openly far-right groups)."

Firstly, @FriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans I think the FWR posters are quite familiar with PP aka KJK. But they are not your intended audience, I guess?

Secondly, citation needed. Some evidence of this ludicrous smear would be nice.

and in her own words she's not a feminist at all, she's a woman's rights activist. So the lazy slur terf doesn't even apply.

Excellent point Bez
Its almost as if T*RF is a shitty misogynistic put down applicable to any woman with an opinion that men dislike..

Looks like someone came to a Glinner fight but is still dreaming of KJK's milkshake. Tastes good doesn't it 'friendly neighbourhood trans'?

Glinner got banned from twitter for saying that men cannot be women.

TERF has been discussed to death here, by finer minds than me! GC feminism wants to protect female spaces for females, and that includes trans-identifying women and those born female that have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Because sex is real and sex matters.

Gender is, well heck if I know. I don't have one, I don't want one. I have a sexed body and a personality. So does everybody else.

TERF - Tired of Explaining Reality to Fuckwits

Does anyone else here sort of feel proud of the word TERF? Like every time I hear the phrase "TERF Island" referring to the UK, as a resident of the UK I feel proud I live here, and how well women here are defending their rights and not being wheesht by the "useful idiots".
I know TERF is meant to be derogatory, but like the N word I feel it's been reclaimed by the people it's meant to demean and changed from something negative into a postitive, a word that represents solidarity between strong women who refuse to be cast as passive powerless victims.
For example David Lammy calling women "dinosaurs hoarding rights like eggs" resulting in women right's campaigners hilariously running around London in dinosaur costumes with armfuls of colourful eggs mocking his ignorant egotistical proclamation. It shows the remarkable strength and courage of women facing the the loss of their rights responding with great spirit and humour to an out of touch moronic politician who has no grasp of the situation and who couldn't care less about uterus havers who don't submit and conform to his view of how menstruators should behave and think. Women turning something very negative and condescending right around into a positive and joyous message through great character. Elaine Miller flashing a merkin in Hollyrood in protest is another example of grabbing the headlines with humour and wit, popping the pomposity of the now disgraced Herr Sturgeon of Lightfingers, once owner of the grandest luxury motorhome North of the Clyde.
Compare that to the agression, intimidation and violence of those who use the word TERF as a slur. Drenching themselves in piss, playing piano with their cock, jugging their fake tits on the Whitehouse lawn, the lack of humour, the despising of humour and comedy, the need to involve children in their every sexual fantasy. It's very clear to me that the TERFs are the ones with wit, humour, honesty, and heart, and being called a TERF by these vile people seems to me one of the greatest positive endorsements and sign of good character that it's possible to get.
I am so proud to live on TERF Island, thank you ladies for all that you do.

It's nothing to do with that. It's about whether a man should be using sex-based insults to women he disagrees with in the name of women's rights.

But is it just in the name of women's rights or in the name of protecting children, and broader society from irreparable harm?

Ah yes, that unbiased bastion of information, Pink News…..

DemiColon

Most women who support gender ideology do so because they think it's right.

Where is the evidence of this? I know many women who are TWAW. Many of these actually really don't care about other women or children, people with less power (despite claiming otherwise), they just care about moving up a power structure, succeeding at any cost. They will jump on any bandwagon if they see it as a way to further themselves... and consequently many are very successful and in spheres where they have huge influence.

They are morally bankrupt and those who are very publicly TWAW etc. need to shore up these beliefs or they will lose status if/when the beliefs attached to the power structures change. This is what Glinner is up against in the media and this why his career has been destroyed.

I actually have more sympathy for those who genuinely hold these beliefs as they have been captured... although you would hope that once they realise the damage these beliefs do to women and children etc. that they would change direction.

Handmaiden seems a good shorthand for both groups but probably more deserved by the former.

echiffre55

Does anyone else here sort of feel proud of the word TERF?

Yup, I am good with TERF.

My feminism doesn't think that women are not strong enough to accept, fight for or against the language that we and others use to describe us.

I don't particularly like the term TERF but I do feel very proud of this. As well as the phrase 'women won't wheesht' now being used across the world.

Morally derelict MSP's in the Scottish Parliament as a perfect example of women not giving a flying fuck about women but who are just interested in succeeding at any cost.

Trextet I read that as irony as that is what TRA are actually doing (making death threats) and Glinner defended it as such.

I believe themes the rules Trex

TRA threatening violence against women - ironic, cant you take a joke, it’s not serious

TRA committing actual violence against women - TERFS are fair game, it’s fine to punch a TERF

glinner saying anything at all - ban him, Nazi bigot, hahaha your wife left you

I am open to what you say (as long as you’re just talking about men using this word), but we do need shorthands and wonder what words you think would be ok? Cheerleader? Enabler? Or do we need a longhand critique (‘women who facilitate the inclusion of males in the safe spaces, services and sports of women and girls etc etc’) every time, to identify the position of a given woman? Or should males never apply pejorative words to females that are sex-specific?

Pertaining to which, it does need to be said that Linehan using ‘handmaiden’ of, say, Layla Moran, is very different from those male TRAs bellowing abuse at women who value sex-based rights. “Handmaiden” is never used in conjunction with “kill a…”, “suck my d1ck…”, “punch a …”, "decapitate..." etc. And 'terf' is sex-specific - both in practice, and insofar as male allies are allies rather than feminists.

Inaccurate.

'TERF' by its definition relates to radical feminism. Radical feminism in itself is associated with the second wave emerging c.1960, which in its more outlandish manifestations recommended women wearing in boiler suits, not shaving or using cosmetics, living in lesbian communes, claiming that even the remotest 'service' to men (like being married) was seen as a betrayal of the [non-existent] 'sisterhood'. Valerie Solanas and her SCUM Manifesto were in their natural home within an ideology structured like this.

The linked thread by Kellie Jay Keen details how she's been attacked from just such a perspective, apparently for the cardinal sin of being heterosexual, or having conformed to particular 'gendered' stereotypes. As for the third wave and so-called 'liberal' feminism - apparently 'liberal' to everyone barring women - it's easy to see why such trends in feminist thinking have no place for an activist in the mold of Kellie Jay Keen.

It's clear why feminism has sold Keen out and left her no position from which to speak. By the above reckoning, I can see why she's chosen to reject the label. Calling her a 'TERF' only shows the ignorance of those doing the calling.

Thanks @SerafinasGoose , every day is a school day for me. I learn.

Agree.

It's also frustrating to see this issue - yet again - coming round to the tedious, perennial angst and defensiveness surrounding WOHM vs. SAHM. Staying around on MN for a while has convinced me that for some women this tired, regressive, repetitive treadmill to nowhere is the sum total of what feminism stands for; has forever stood for; that it's solely about their personal decisions respecting domestic and paid labour. Because, after all, 'feminism is about "choice"'.

The term 'handmaiden' used in this context is obviously a backward slide - the reasoning that if you're fucking a man you're a a 'handmaiden to the patriarchy' is as ludicrous as the idea that being bisexual, or indeed even an adult human female in the actual sense of that word, is 'transphobic'. But there are shortcuts to thinking on all sides of this issue.

If it relates to women who willingly chuck other women under the bus, who cede over/violate their spaces without their consent, who utter any variation on the theme of reframing our trauma, who want them in competition with natal males in sports which put them at risk and nullify their achievements; if they coyly sidle up to threads where women have been victims of terrible assaults, rape, VAWG, stalking, DPV, etc., at the hands of men and want help and advice to tell them 'NAMALT', and think of the men, then 'handmaiden' suits those women to a tee.

I do know the origins of the term, and use it very advisedly. And in contexts like the above, I have no issue with it whatsoever. If women opt to do such things to other women, and in doing so make themselves part of the problem, they can damned well take the criticism that comes with it. In which case 'Handmaiden' is exceptionally mild.