Glinner calling women "handmaidens"

[ftmquestions]

Respect to glinner for speaking up but does anyone else consider his use of the term "handmaiden" grating? I don't like men calling women sexist names because they don't agree with him. Not one to criticise usually, cba with purity politics etc - and he can say what he likes - but I just wondered if I was alone in this making me bristle slightly

@TooBigForMyBoots "Before the trans shitshow this argument was used against married women, SAHMs, women who shave/wear make-up, religious women etc. It is so subjective that most women fall under its definition."

Fair enough. That has not been my experience. There are women who do the things you cite-but those things alone do not make them fall under the "handmaiden" umbrella. Such statements are a common anti-feminist trope. "I'm always being told I'm not a feminist because I'm a SAHM/like men/shave my armpits...." No you're not. It is possible you're being told you're not a feminist. But not for those reasons.

Being called a Handmaid is one of the reasons KJK doesn't identify as a feminist.

@CurlewKate Feminists calling each other handmaidens because they weren't exactly in lock step with each other was a big thing in the feminist blog sphere about 15 years ago.

@TooBigForMyBoots " Being called a Handmaid is one of the reasons KJK doesn't identify as a feminist."

Fair enough. Up to her. I don't know enough about her to say whether it was a justified accusation. Seems unlikely- but if someone calling her something disobliging caused her to cease to identify as a feminist I call that a pretty poor show.

@Nomorenonbinary I was there-that's not how I remember it. But I was also there in the1970s. I may have a little less patience than some!

Feminists calling each other handmaidens because they weren't exactly in lock step with each other was a big thing in the feminist blog sphere about 15 years ago

Evidence, please? I used to read some of the big name feminist blogs around that time. I don’t remember this term being used ever. Unfortunately some anti-feminist posters here don’t even have a nodding acquaintance with the truth and simply make up any old shit to suit their arguments, even when it seems far too trivial to be worth lying about. So I’d like to see a couple of links demonstrating this was ever a “big thing.” This thread seems to be full of made up nonsense tbh.

Strangely I don't keep links of everything i ever read in case I need to prove something to someone fifteen years later. I don't even know how many of those blogs still exist.

It happened a lot on here too.

Anyway, here's Posie's thread.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/2679960-Not-feminist-enough-if-youre-heterosexual

I think that for male allies even more than feminist women, it's best not to use demeaning terms for women you disagree with. Acknowledge that there are anti-feminist women, but be ready to say that every woman should be respected.

I do remember women saying things like "I suppose you're going to call me a handmaiden and not a feminist because I like having sex with men/shave my legs/like pretty clothes/am a SAHM." I also remember women behaving in pretty handmaideny ways accusing everyone of being unsisterly and saying "feminism is about being able to make choices"......

This. Not to play identity politics (or, ugh, I guess I am) but it annoys me that glinner (a man) calls women "handmaidens" while championing women's rights. Even if these women are being obtuse, offensive, dangerous (eg supporting paediatric transition), it makes it seem as if his respect for women is conditional on whether they agree with him or not. I'm not saying that women should be free from criticism, but there's no benefit to using such sneering terms. It just makes him look like a hypocrite

The problem is that I don't think there are any words that express the concept of the handmaiden except handmaiden. And we need to be able to express it. It's ironic that we spend so much time talking about this sort of thing that sometimes our eyes are taken off the real battles still to be fought. Almost as if there's some sort of 5th Column at work in the feminist movement!

This is exactly the kind of IDPOL nonsense that got us into this mess!

There are no words that women can use and men cannot and vice versa.

Almost as if there's some sort of 5th Column at work in the feminist movement!

Certainly comes across that way!

I resent that. I don't think that there are words men cannot use but it annoys me and is hypocritical for men to use these words while championing women's rights. Can't you see where I'm coming from at all?

I think you are tying yourself in knots because for whatever reason, you don’t like the fella.

We could if your posts had any kind of valid point to make.

I'm guessing it is more conditional upon whether they are championing the sterilisation of kids and rapists in women's prisons rather than just 'disagreement'.

You could ask him yourself you know. He is on here, and on twitter. Instead of starting a thread to slag him off.

Well maybe I do just dislike him then because it also annoys me that he's on mumsnet - a forum for mums!!!

Well maybe I do just dislike him then because it also annoys me that he's on mumsnet - a forum for mums!!!

If you were a regular on this forum you’d know that it’s not only used by mums.

So you dislike Glinner because he sometimes posts on an internet forum that you rarely use and know nothing about. That’s completely ridiculous, and frankly you should be ashamed of yourself for disliking someone for such a stupid reason.

Yes, it's pathetic of you OP. Stop it.
Glinner has suffered a lot, trying to stop the medicalization of children and drawing attention to detransitioners. He's a hero .

As a Lesbian I also appreciate his support. He and Posie Parker have always there for us from the beginning.

For me, "handmaiden" is such a subjective concept that it has become meaningless, except in the fact that it is a sex based slur.

I cannot see a way that it benefits feminism or women.

And funny you should mention fifth columnists. I have often thought that they use "Handmaiden" to alienate women from feminism.

"Frankly you should be ashamed of yourself" Christ, come on.

So you dislike him because he posts on a forum but want to protect the women who support the sterilisation of kids because they are women?

Make it make sense.