Antipodean fruit growers 3 - Is the Kiwi a Dodo or a Phoenix?

[Bosky]

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632616-antipodean-fruit-growers-2-canary-in-the-internet-coal-mine

Front row seat on the seemingly eternal battle between Jersh (aka Suzi Quatro's Fat Nan) and his Merry Band of Farmers against the Transpowered Forces of Internet Censorship.

1st Thread - Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

That sounds great, I will have a look. 👍

That's great they help people get info on stuff like monkey torturers & sexual predators. I've noticed an issue of 'cute' videos on YouTube which are actually animal abuse, wonder if KF has stuff on such people...?

As to Null, I'm assuming from your description that you don't think the 'rape and dismemberment threats' on Blocklands & leaking IP addresses on 8chan are true? Was this also 'Dynastia' having a laugh?

Ask Josh. This is Mumsnet, not KF.

What is Blocklands? I’ve never heard of it

I’ve listened to Null on a couple of podcasts, he seems like a reasonable chap. I expect he probably wrote some dickish things on the internet when he was younger though, as did pretty much every male adolescent of his generation who had unsupervised internet access (and a not insignificant number of female adolescents of the era probably wrote some dickish things online too).

It's a gaming forum.

Is threatening to 'rape and dismember' a woman just 'saying dickish things'? I wouldn't have thought FWR would normally be so blasé about that.

And what about leaking users' IP addresses on 8chan?

Oddly, while most female adolescents the internet back then (and now) 'said dickish things', most seemed to be able to restrain themselves from threatening to rape and dismember men.

If KF wants to expose bad people, why did they refuse to help police investigating the Christchurch shooter?

https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/website-kiwi-farms-refuses-to-surrender-data-linked-to-accused-christchurch-terrorist-brendan-tarrant/news-story/46d3c925ef84b24dde6194c42b3c2241

Why are you posting all this here? Go ask them?

I’m gonna ask again @TheJoyOfWriting , why are you so invested in what a bunch of British mums think about an American gossip site?

Why should I believe they would tell the truth? If they did harass etc innocent people, they're hardly going to admit.

I'm asking MNers bc I've seen many defend KF, and normally people here have sound judgement, so I was assuming KF hadn't actually done the things it was accused of (I'd seen many here say they were unfairly maligned)

This may be what you're doing, but 'open eyes very wide, present a very one-sided view of a group or demographic generally on the GC/not progressive end of the spectrum that you think right-minded people should denounce and then demand that FWR either denounce then or prove you wrong or speak for them and take responsibility for them' is a familiar but tiresome modus operandi loved by TRAs, who fondly imagine they're showing the nasty mummies.

If the latter's not your aim, you may wish to have a think about your tone. And why you're repeatedly asking one group to answer for another that's nothing to do with them.

Are you of that age then?

any chance of you making up your own mind, and then ideally keeping it to yourself?

these constant manipulative questions are both creepy and boring. Top combo

Do you think plenty of edgy female adolescents threaten to rape & dismember people? I'm 19, so no I wasn't around them, but I have read a lot about that era. Plus it doesn't tally w usual female behaviour, even edgy behaviour.

Are you saying it WAS like that?

Go and ask Null. Stop asking stupid questions on a female website based in another continent.

Muppet.

My early internet era was things like BMEZINE and Rotten.com which I imagine you would also find shocking.

The big difference between my time and Null’s was the amount of minors online (and their parents inability to understand or moderate what their teens were doing).

My children are mostly older than you (and younger than Null) but when I mentioned wanting to protect my youngest from seeing the full video of Charlie Kirk’s murder my eldest reminded me of all the beheading videos that his age group were exposed to. The Internet is a wild place.

You have eyes. Go and read the relevant threads. KF archives and documents, and nothing gets deleted. So if any of the stuff you're so curious about happened, it's all still there. Read it, then you'll know.

How would giving NZ police data about randoms on the internet discussing a crime they didn't commit, had nothing to do with, and weren't even in the same continent as, help the police in their investigation of that crime? Do you think MN should give the police user data on everyone who commented on the Glinner threads, to help them investigate his 'crime'?

KF doesn't exist to 'expose bad people '. That isn't it's purpose. It's a gossip site, it's just the only gossip site which subjects of the gossip can't bully into scrubbing what they've done from the record.

Sigh.

KF doesn't harass people. Interacting with the subjects of threads is highly discouraged and users trying to instigate interaction with subjects will get sworn at, mocked and thread banned by mods.

KF isn't a group, it's a website with over 100000 registered members. Do you seriously think that amount of people, based in countries around the world, all get together and have campaigns against people who are foolish enough to put their own private info online? The users on KF don't agree on anything. There are all kinds of people there, with the whole spectrum of political views, sexualities, ethnicities, ages, interests. They're pro free speech, pro KF existing, anti child and animal abuse, and disagree about absolutely everything else.

FWR isn't KFs mum. If you won't believe what's on KF, why would you believe what anyone here says about KF? The internet is full of lies, but KF keeps receipts. So if you want evidence of the facts of what happened in a given situation, KF can sometimes be the only place you can get them. That makes it a valuable resource in my opinion.

I definitely agree that KF's work exposing child abusers & other criminals is extremely valuable.

As to nobody being harassed : Chris Chan's treatment was obvs harassment, tho posters upthread have indicated that rules are different now.

I said 'harass people etc'. I accepted Julie Terryberry, for one, wasn't harassed, but I still contend the way KF acted towards her & others was deeply unethical. I'm suprised FWR, which is normally v hot on misogyny, is defending the treatment of an abused, mentally ill teenager like Terryberry, for one, as acceptable bc she was 'foolish enough to put her own private info online'.

The only reason anyone would know there were posts on KF about them is if they went to KF and looked for them. If I make a thread about, I dunno, David Lammy, on MN, and say on it that he's a biologically illiterate fool, is that me harassing him? KF didn't treat Julie Tayberry any way, KF users didn't interact with her they just discussed the things she put online about herself. If you search KF for her name, the first several posts are KF users saying how sorry they felt for her.

If you want to try to understand the long history between Jersh and CC you need to go to KF and read about it. Here are the forum guidelines on the KF CC thread:

Forum guidelinesBe civil. Don't get angry over Chris. If you need to tell people you're better than someone, you're probably not.
Limit discussion of body parts and functions. Chris is gross. Discussing his incontinence in detail is unnecessary and disturbing.
Don't roleplay in your posts. Don't write pretend dialog between people, such as Chris and his mother. Avoid writing monologues, they're also dumb.
Hide your powerlevel. Avoid revealing intimate, personal details about yourself in public boards. These threads are not your personal blog and we are not an asylum.
No trolling plans. We are not an autistic Illuminati. If you embarrass yourself or the forum trying to troll, we will ridicule you.
Write descriptive topic titles. "[14-Sep-2015] Facebook post about Sonichu" is better than "new update".
Chris doesn't read your posts. Stop trying to directly, or indirectly, chastise Chris through your posts. He does not care about what you have to say, and these rants are boring.
Don't post random articles. Unless the subject matter is directly related to Chris and his history, please do not post articles with a loose affiliation.

They talk about people who've put stuff about themselves on the internet, that's it.

OK, I made a mistake here and I apologise. My understanding was that the shooter himself was a KF poster & that KF refused to hand over posts he made.
I read an article stating this, but this is just about KF posts ABOUT the shooting, which I agree should not be illegal.

I'll find the other article.

I think the reason for your confusion is that ‘KF’ and ‘FWR’ aren’t single entities and thus don’t have an official, unified stance on anything.

Thus there are posters here who hate KiwiFarms and there is also a significant number of us who see it as a beacon of Freespeech (albeit a beacon that shines out of a cesspit!).
There are also many FWR posters who have learned the value in not ‘cancelling’ someone for something they may or may not have said, especially if that thing was said a decade or two ago.

The main thing the two sites have in common is that both Mumsnet and KIwiFarms have founders who are committed to the concept of Freespeech.

One is subjected to much more restrictive laws than the other and one is a reliant on a more mainstream funding model, but at the base level they exist because the site founders wanted people to be able to exchange ideas freely, even (and perhaps especially) unpopular or unpalatable ideas.

Josh wouldn’t give up his users data without a court order (and Josh advises all sign ups to give as little personal data as possible so that even a court order won’t identify them) and neither did Justine:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47894932

(and as it happens, all MN had on a ‘alittlehelp18’ was an email address, an anonymous email address that seemed to reference the person who was making the legal demands to see it)

When you see a FWR person defend KF they are generally defending Null’s commitment to Freespeech, especially as he has been a tiny David constantly forced to battle giant, crossdressing Goliaths, which is something British terves have plenty of shared lived experience with.

Listen to Josh describe KF in his own words via a podcast or something- I’ll dig one out for you if you like.

There are plenty of threads on KiwiFarms documenting the weirdest characters of GC world, btw, it’s just a lot less prominent than similar documents made of TRA world (because far fewer of us are involved in shady business/have closet skeletons to expose/post attention seeking selfies online). We’re collectively too dull to be infamous LOLcows, basically.

It’d be great if you would start your own thread, rather than completely hijacking an extant one and on that same point surely there’s no need to reply to every post individually with much the same answer. It’s just a sprawling mass of you on here at the moment, which I realise may well be the intention.

Josh interviewed by the Heterodorx back in 2023:

https://heterodorx.com/podcast/episode-107-how-the-internet-lost-its-backbone-with-joshua-moon/

Null is not 'Mr Justine of Mumsnet'.

For anyone old enough to have fequented forums 20+ years ago, KF is not a shock. It has the feel of forums (of various topics) that were lightly moderated and had a mostly 'free speech' approach.

If you want to post/read about the stuff that other people post on the internet on a certain topic, then KF will most likely have a thread for you.