Women's rights general conversations - Thread 5

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 4.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Good speech. So a third admit to self censoring, I wonder what proportion of the remainder don't because they never have a wrong think, because they're the ones doing the censoring and instilling the fear? I'm glad SM tribalism gets a mention too. That's why I don't mind our visitors too much, so long as they stick around and aren't too tedious. It's a two way street after all. Perhaps we'll install some doubts as well as having our reasoning tested.

Some good news here, the international cycling organisation has seen sense and made the women's category for biological women only.

https://twitter.com/seaningle/status/1679825920884891649

An interesting thread if anyone has more patience and intestinal fortitude than I have

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4849466-dd-uncomfortable-with-trans-child-using-bathroom?page=2&reply=127648011

I see the what's your daughters problem let the boys invade her personal private space posters are out in force on that one!

Don't have it in me today to post on it

I did, mainly because I don't think the women who are doing that actually understand that that's what they're saying. They have given no thought whatsoever to how they favour and prioritise boys and belittle girls.

@StephanieSuperpowers good stuff. I hope it's ignorance for most of them apart from the frequent flyers where it's obviously not!

I'm hopeful that if my brain starts working at some point (it's rebelling against the sheer quantity of sugar i consumed yesterday, I feel hung over) I'll stick my oar in!

Oh dear! Hope it wears off soon, beetle.

I'm thinking hair of the dog may be in order!

Looks at shrinking Tunnocks supplies!

Time to hit the shops?

the god of thunder is sat directly over my house and is very very very angry. Like hell am i going out today! I've currently got cats from three different houses taking shelter in various rooms.

I've got to go out on Monday, and have to go past Sainsbury's! I may detour!

On other issues, saw the attached. I've scrubbed the name to protect the idiotic numpty!

What what what?

<scratches head>

I know right! 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Has this been posted yet?

HELEN JOYCE: The lie that man can be women https://mol.im/a/12299641

We owe so much to Helen Joyce, Maya Forstater, JKR, Hannah Barnes et al. So articulate and knowledgable and courageous.

This is a harrowing and relevant-on-many-levels story. Didn’t watch the X-Factor this refers to, but the article illustrates how RTV contestants are manipulated and treated as commodities, how the TV company’s twisting of the narrative (“bad girl” Lucy and “bad boy” Rylan moved to another hotel away from the “good” contestants) led to her being raped by a hotel porter. She spent her childhood as a boy, says she’d have probably gone down the transition route these days, but puberty cured her as it cures so many dysphoric children.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/jul/15/lucy-spraggan-the-real-reason-i-dropped-out-of-the-x-factor

Bloody hell. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at the cynicism of TV companies, but that is so shitty.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2023/07/13/tracy-chapman-luke-combs-fast-car-cover/

The brilliant Tracey Chapman is now "queer" according to the washpo. IIRC, she has always kept her sexuality private.

Not sure if that's the cover I heard on the radio the other day, but if so it's awful. Glad to see she's kept the rights though, and is getting royalties.

But back to the main point - if she doesn't want to talk about her private life, that should be respected rather than sticking labels on her that (given her age) she may well find offensive.

The “why are terfs so wrong?” thread got nuked after a few pages of posters just going “well I’m a TERF” I see!

Love Tracy Chapman. Very typical of the current mood to label someone who spent her whole life defying them. And Combs’ cover is anaemic and captures none of the quiet romantic desperation of the original, but I’m glad it’ll be making her good money.

I just went back to YouTube to listen to both versions - agree that Chapman's version has a quality Combs' version lacks. Also if you listen to the lyrics - how many men quit school to look after their drunken fathers and then support a drunken partner by working a supermarket checkout? Unconvincing.

Haven't listened to the cover version but still well remember hearing 'Fast Car' when it first came out. Her voice and the music sent shivers down my spine, so lovely.

If I'd never heard Tracy Chapman's version id think Luke's was good. But having listened to TC version many 100s of time in my younger days I find his rather flat.

I read that as "Luke Bombs Fast Car cover," which seems to be more appropriate!

Dear oh dear, I was foolish enough to wander over to the old place (it's a very wet day), where I read someone who should know better assert confidently that 'gender' has been used in the modern sense as a near synonym for 'sex' for many years - possibly over a century. This was to squelch someone who said they didn't have a gender. So I went and looked in the OED (it really is a very very wet day) and it hasn't.

It is (as we know) a grammatical term. It was also sometimes used in places where genus of genera would be more usual, and occasionally instead of 'engender' - to bring forth, be the parent or ancestor of. Never never never as a word for sex - except, in the Shorter Oxford, at the end of a whole list of various grammatical applications as 'sex (joc)'.

So a punchline for some dated humorist.

Why did they feel compelled to lie? Do they think lying will ever prove they are 'right'?

Why did they feel compelled to lie?

I think it's because they know that some people will believe them and not bother to check it. They also lie because it's just what they do.

It wasn't a head wear type of person, would it?