Women's rights general conversations - Thread 5

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 4.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

angelico53 · Today 21:33
I think it's a step. But I'm more worried about the prevalence of queer theory and the influence of SW. But I'm a miserable bugger today and frankly not fit for human consumption.

I agree. Most people don’t realise it is influencing a great deal, and there is a grip on children, organising the way towards their futures.

@StephanieSuperpowers It does feel like something has shifted, though.

I'm afraid it feels to me as though this is a cynical shift, based on nothing other than the realisation that women's votes will be lost. I loathe Keir Starmer's bandwagon policies.

Absolutely this. Starmer says no more than he has to, thinking he can keep everyone onside. Unless and until he's prepared to say that the way that children are currently being guided is wrong and unacceptable... I won't be holding my breath.

Unfortunately, I agree. Something has shifted, but it's all slippery weasel words to try and re-capture the thought-terminating BeKind tactical ground.

I think we're starting to shift and Starmer is shifting a (very) little because the shift is starting. He wouldn't be at the forefront of anything just in case he got it wrong. His shift is just about enough to not really please anyone who's paying attention. The shit is also vague enough to change without looking like a full change if the wind changes.

I think we're currently at the beginning of the beginning of the end and it could still go tits up. I think what will help us all is more detransitioners coming forward because their experiences are what will force people to see how fucked up this all is.

Sure hope so, Mouse.

Even if the shift is small, weasly, opportunistic, and built on quicksand it's still important because it's opening the conversation to a lot more people. Another nail in the coffin of No Debate.

There has been an amazing shift in general perceptions recently, and more people are waking up - for example Andrew Neil who now knows about the horrors of transition for young women (but is ridiculously huffy when his lack of interest previously is mentioned, the dick). People in general are far happier to speak out, and action is taken more quickly - like over that trans identifying male walking through female teenagers swimming changing rooms.

I think in Labour's case they have recently and belatedly recognised the impact of their stance on women's negative attitudes to Labour, (There was something in the news about a month ago saying that for Labour middle aged women were a key demographic).

And maybe some of them have changed their views because of the greater publicity around it all.

My problem, though, is that I haven't seen that the usual suspects have been complaining about this (partial) volte face.

It's entirely possible that it's still all weasel words, and Little Owen, Russell-Moyle et al have been told that. Behind the scenes it's possibly all still full steam ahead. I'm also suspicious because of Starmer's using such non-specific and unusual language.

What I see as a shift is the ordinary people feeling a bit less cowed. I don't really consider labour or their silly mates to be all that important. This is going to be ended by normal people refusing it.

I should think they'll test the response in focus groups and steer by that. Bunch of hacks don't give a shit about women or children or thinking or anything but their own rise up the greasy pole.

My life has been hugely improved by blocking little Owen on the twitters. I need to Google Russell-Moyle!

I've toyed with starting a thread on this article, then decided against it. It might suit better on another board anyway.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/30/science-of-motherhood-transformative-western-culture-pregnant

The article itself speaks to so much. Off the top of my head, surrogacy and, in fact, any loss of a child and the hollow vanity of men who would call themselves 'mother'.

A side issue is how tightly the Guardian locks down comments on these subjects. I noticed it in a recent article on pregnancy in sportswomen. I suppose at least they're allowing comments. The first comment on this article is from Tranada 🙄

How fascinating, thanks for sharing. I saw 10 deliveries during my obstetrics experience as a student nurse and wept at every one. Growing and giving birth to a whole new human being is simply (in a non-religious way) totally miraculous and astonishing. I long ago got over my involuntary childlessness, but will always regret not being able to do that amazing thing with my body. Women deserve a lot more care and respect for what they do; I believe men suffer from womb-envy far more than women suffer from penis-envy.

Thanks for the link from me too: fascinating.

On a separate matter: this is a pertinent Tweet from Venice Allen:

twitter.com/roseveniceallan/status/1685387421267959808?s=61&t=kGVJW3nqB0HwN7e30O6LKw

Yes, that was my awakening, really, although there seems to have been a tsunami of peaking incidents since then.

I believe men suffer from womb-envy far more than women suffer from penis-envy.

Absolutely! I've never understood the concept of penis envy. Who'd want on of those things?!

We need a new thread v soon.

I think they can be handy if you need a wee in the countryside. But why can't they just wait, like women usually do? It's disgusting how often quiet corners of castles and the like stink of piss.

As a life-long horse-rider and one-time cyclist, I have always wondered how difficult it is for men bouncing around on their cockenballs during those activities.

Cycling is no problem, but as for horses, I have no idea. But I understood that normally a saddle is provided? I guess that'd help, a bit.

New thread started, but don't all rush over there straight away! We still have a bit of space on this thread.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4861150-womens-rights-general-conversations-thread-6

Are men's bladders smaller? Do they not have the ability to wait like women do, or is it because they've always known they can just whip it out literally where they are standing and pee, therefore the ability to wait longer isn't honed from years of waiting in a long queue to pee

My theory about castles is that they're scent-marking, like dogs.

Just what I was going to say Gonners.

I think @Gonners might be onto something. I don't recall my Dad pissing al fresco but he was in the Guards. He'd been trained to guard castles not pee all over them, and to hold it in!

I had an unpleasant experience this weekend at a cafe with a row of unisex, self-contained toilets. Several women waiting patiently, one man tried pushing doors just to check that they were occupied, another strode up, asked 'are the men's at the back', and when told no, that's the disabled one, strode past and went straight in there. Inside the cubicles was messy, with puddles on the floors, and splashes on the seats. Nobody was happy about any of it.