Debate relating to the definition of “sex” in the Equality Act 2010 will be in Westminster Hall on 12 June 2023 4:30pm

[IwantToRetire]

Just posting this as on a thread elsewhere I made some disparaging remarks that the debate will be shuffled off to some small committee room.

But they must think that more than a few MPs are wanting to take part as I have just seen it will be in Westminster Hall.

Will be interesting to see which MPs are willing to state views about the reality of biological sex in public!

Event will be broadcast live.

Westminster Hall debate12 June 2023 at 4:30pm
e-petitions 623243 and 627984, relating to the
definition of “sex” in the Equality Act 2010
Member
Tonia Antoniazzi Labour(*)
https://whatson.parliament.uk/event/cal42480

(*) Not sure what this means - is she the Chair?

Thank you for this thread. Bookmarking ready for Monday. Anyone raising stupid AOB at the end of my 4pm meeting will be getting the Paddington stare.

You have to say it all as one word Dino:

"AOBNoGoodthxbye'

It will also be featured on BBC2 Politics Live programme on Monday lunchtime.

Maya Forstater will be on, with Robin Moira White.

I suspect the casual viewer will get a very good explainer about why sex should be clarified as being biological sex from at least one of these two 🤣

I wrote to my MP last week, saying I would be watching and hoped to see her speak at the debate on Monday, and briefly summarising the issue. I also linked the HoC brief in the email, to try and make sure she had read something fairly neutral in advance.

Bump

Looks like the debate will also be broadcast on BBC Parliament! https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001mzg0

Thank yo for the thread and for bumping, I am running my old folks around tomorrow and will try to hop on here at some point.

You no yo, I am not from the 'hood. #ShropshireLass

Thanks for sharing.

I understand Kate's (KPSS) stand but her article was quite circular. Also what we have at the moment isn't working for service providers.

Sex Matters aren't asking for a prefix of the word sex. The petition was worded like that due to character limits. They do suggest some alternative text. More details here https://sex-matters.org/posts/category/updates/

Helen Joyce was questioned on the GRA and should that be the next step. Her answer was why do that, it would give bad optics and frankly our time and efforts should focus on women and there are lots of things that need our attention. Also repealing Acts is long and drawn out. I was very persuaded.

I think Maya said something in one of the Sex Matters webinars that the GRA wouldn't go because it is linked in with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

I'm really interested in who will turn up. I have a strong suspicion one side will have more MPs than the other, but this is not about numbers it is about debate.

Twitter thread by Maya.
https://twitter.com/MForstater/status/1667987290512130049?t=wmKgTiYHMgra36QAXd-y4g&s=19

I feel a real idiot now, having started this thread and updated it, I've planned everything based on the mistaken idea that it doesn't start until 6:30pm. Groan.

But agree, as much as the arguements put forward, the turnout will be an indication of how much importance this is seen to have in terms of the current turmoil in UK politics as a whole.

I suspect that the MPs supporting TRA politics will be in the majority, because it is still the fact that some MPs dont want to be seen to be supporting women's rights. Which is really sad in this day and age.

And unless there is some sort of seismic shift, I cant see even if there is an acknowledgement that the EA needs to be less open to interpretation (thanks to the additions of the exemptions post GRA) that the Tories are going to make parliamentary time for this to happen.

Helen Joyce was questioned on the GRA and should that be the next step. Her answer was why do that, it would give bad optics and frankly our time and efforts should focus on women and there are lots of things that need our attention. Also repealing Acts is long and drawn out. I was very persuaded.

Much as I respect Helen, I was in this before she knew there was an issue and I don't agree, I see the GRA as fundamental to the whole problem.

I feel concerned that they will just fudge and say that no clarification is needed implying that the EA is clear as it is.

Reminder that there will be a discussion on Politics Live today, BBC2 12.15 - 1 pm (as long as it hasn’t been bumped by Boris’s bloviating).

Good to see Labour MP Siobhain McDonagh standing up for women.

Any way of watching BBC2 Politics Live without a VPN for those of us outside the UK? Or can anybody give me the highlights?

I've got a feeling my MP won't be there. His reply to my SexMatters letter asking him to attend is typical slippery stuff. Current guidance is perfectly good enough but we'll keep an eye on it.

"Thank you for your email about updating the Equality Act to specify that any reference to sex means a person's biological sex.

The current guidance from the Equality and Human Rights Commission on existing legislation says that it is entirely acceptable for providers of single-sex services to take account of biological sex of their service users.

Where it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, the Equality Act 2010 is clear that service providers can exclude, modify or limit access for transgender people, even where they have a Gender Recognition Certificate. This includes where a service provider has concerns that the presence of individuals who are biologically male could prevent them from meeting their aims, such as in the example below, included in the guidance: “A group counselling session is provided for female victims of sexual assault. The organisers do not allow trans women to attend as they judge that the clients who attend the group session are likely to be traumatised by the presence of a person who is biologically male.”

I can assure you that the Government is committed to maintaining the safeguards that allow organisations to provide single-sex spaces. It is crucial that the principle of being able to operate spaces reserved for women and girls is maintained.

I will continue to monitor this issue closely.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me, and as always, if there is ever anything I can do to help as your local MP, please do not hesitate to get in touch."

BBC Politics Live: RMW stating that they have never had a problem using women's toilets = ergo there isn't a problem, despite Maya clearly saying there is and a evidenced by the debate this afternoon at Westminster Hall on this very subject.

Sigh.

Also I don't know if my blood pressure is up to watching this afternoon: might need to record it.

Robin’s view is that Robin should use women’s facilities because no one has a problem with that, and Robin would feel banished if Robin had to use a gender neutral facility.

Fortunately, Maya pointed out that Robin’s feelings do not trump everyone else’s needs.

RMW saying no women in the exercise class RMW wanted to attend had a problem with that. Or maybe decades of female socialisation stopped them being truthful?

RMW also refusing to use mixed sex / gender neutral facilities

And don't get me started on the Tory who just said if we change the definition to be biological sex then trans people won't go out and that's not acceptable. What about the women who don't go out because things are now mixed sex? Just ignoring the rights of religious women

Thank you!
chilling19 and SabrinaThwaite

You are both fab

And Chrysanthemum5 and anyone else who comes along x

Well it ain't fucking working is it.

Well done to the Labour MP (female) who clearly and succinctly pointed out there are nine protected characteristics in the EA (implying not just one one I thought), including Gender Reassignment, Sex, and Sexual Orientation; and that there are a few circumstances where women need a woman only treatment or space based on biological sex - prisons, hospitals settings, refuges, etc

Somehow it got the talk away from being centered around
Crispin Blunt and RMW’s making it seem that trans people are the sole protected characteristic; or RMW’s statement that transmen would hate using ladies’ lavatories and other women would find this difficult too (- as if that were ever the main concern!), or that if transwomen couldn’t use every space designated for women TW would be in a ghetto.

I likely won’t get a chance to watch but will check out this thread

GailBlancheViola · Today 13:23

Re your MP’s reply, please write back and ask them ask him how what they say about the meaning of “Sex”’in regard to GRCs can possibly be true - without a massively expensive court case to prove otherwise - given Lady Haldane’s judgement?