Is Mumsnet shutting down GC views? FAO Justine Roberts

[Pluvia]

Mumsnet, are you aware that GC views are acceptable and are held by the vast majority of people in the UK?

Why are you using the 'not in the spirit of Mumsnet' argument to shut down discussions?

In the thread about a trans co-worker you allowed pro-trans arguments presumably from the US, Australia and Canada to mount up overnight. When GC women here in the UK countered with facts this morning you shut the thread down. I didn't see a single offensive post — unless you've changed policy and now think using the medical term autogynephilia is offensive.

This is not acceptable. Maya Forstater's case established that GC views are worthy of respect and yet you seem to be censoring open debate.

Right, okay. I didn't see the whole thread.

I think sometimes it is clear that someone is AGP - from the presentation to behaviour. I, fairly frequently, see such people around where I live and it stands out very much so that there is an erotic/sexual aspect to their presentation and activity.

Yep.
And even if you know nothing about AGP or paraphilias that inner radar can get pinged by recognising the underlying sexual motivations of strangers, the radar that Gavin De Becker describes in The Gift Of Fear.

There is a young transitioning male person working in a customer service role local to me, they couldn’t be further from the AGP type and the only radar they ping is my concerned-mother-protective instinct (because they are pursuing an impossible dream, humans cannot change sex nor be perceived as neither).

Wanting to avoid someone who exhibits sexualised behaviours or pings your flight/fear radar isn’t transphobia, because it doesn’t apply to all transitioning people.

Years ago I definitely avoided going to M and S for bra fitting as there was a man who appeared to be enjoying interaction with female customers just a bit too much. Just because he tried to present as a woman does not mean it was appropriate to place him in that department. Yes we reject it , it does no favours for us . No problem if he was on china, or household goods though. I would also choose to avoid someone if I could see a conflict coming, unless I was prepared to address the issue of their rights to say who they are , and my rights to refuse to lie. And we have every right to object to men in womens sex segregated facilities. And we should be able to talk about this freely without threads being taken down.

Yes to all this. How governments do anything against the growing epidemic of sexual assault against women and girls, the failure to prosecute — and then support the removal all the traditional safeguards that have been put in place such as single-sex facilities? Decent men would run a mile if offered a bra-fitting job in M&S. They understand it isn't appropriate.

You definitely tend to develop a radar for 'creeps' and people with covert motivation. I've experienced such in the beauty salon (where I go to get my eyebrows tinted). It felt like a voyeuristic situation of acutely listening in on 'women's talk'.

I've also come across people on bicycles in inappropriately short mini-skirts, flashing their behind for traffic - a bit like that Athena poster of the blonde 'tennis girl'. You know the one!

Given the ridiculously heavy handed behaviour by MNHQ on the ‘In good faith’ (ha!) thread, I think the answer to the OP is probably ‘yes’

Very delayed response. Apologies! I wasn't avoiding the question. Just hadn't fully caught up with the thread.

When I read some of the responses that called this out I agreed with them. It helped me understand why the thread had an uncomfortable tone from the start. Others may have felt differently though, I appreciate that.

Just seen this one too. Sorry! I need to get used to how notifications work 😬😁

Anyway, no worries at all. I won't worry about following up on it but it is a bit of a shame. I'm baffled as to what I said that was so bad. I'll just enjoy laughing at the irony that it was as soon as I got brave enough to leap in to the GAP that shall not be spoken of 😉

Nobody who believes TWAW ever answers this when I ask it, it's quite frustrating as I would be interested in their answer.

For any of you who were on the original thread, and thought that this is a woman asking for advice and support (as other women may do in the future) Could you add any practicle advice, resources etc., on this thread.

Whilst our outrage is something we can discuss here it maybe that the original OP is still looking for support - thanks

Information and resources sharing thread for women wanting information re their rights at work in relation to trans women
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4794290-information-and-resources-sharing-thread-for-women-wanting-information-re-their-rights-at-work-in-relation-to-trans-women

Yep. Good point.

While I was one of the people advocating that the opening wording might have been phrased better (IMO and that of some others.. including some of the people who I wouldn't normally agree with on other points), I very much understood the request behind the message. "What are my rights regarding sex-segrated spaces like toilets at work and what should I do? I feel uncomfortable sharing the women's toilets with a transwoman". A perfectly reasonable and understable ask.

The difference between us is that I didn't (unlike you) try & state that my views are representative of the majority.
Maybe they are
Maybe they are not.

They are not. Whatever you think about polling, it's the best we have. This is across multiple polls.

Fwiw I have been reading these board for a long long time and haven't read a single good sense reason to oppose self id from anyone.

Yes, that may be your cognitive bias.