Stephen Whittle inciting violence against KJK/LWS Belfast

[raspberrywine]

twitter.com/stephenwhittle/status/1647298393746685955?s=46&t=zg2PMywW3TnboZg5Z47SOw

You just completely changed the subject on me.

You were saying it's a "non issue" in NI... are you now admitting that it's maybe actually a real issue that many women care about?

that's an issue with MEN not trans women

trans women ARE men

Where do you even start with that?!
As a pp said, there's so much more to me than my reproductive abilities.
What about choice, bodily autonomy to do what the fuck you like with your own body?!
Not "think of all the women we need to be stopping doing so and so as it means that there might be less women having babies!" 🙄
Choice.
Plenty of women who aren't trans don't ever want babies too.
It' seems the exact same mindset of those against women having abortions - that they should be forced to have the baby as others know what's best for them and their body etc...
except in your case nobody should be trans as they have to keep their womb for all the baby making - just it's nothing to fucking do with you how many kids people do or don't want, whether they're trans or not!

If you're afraid of men being perverts/assaulting women under the guise of trans identifying and using women's spaces, that's an issue with MEN not trans women.

Well we finally seem to be getting somewhere. Yes it is a MEN issue and men, regardless of how they identify, need to stay out of women’s spaces. We don’t want transwomen in our spaces because they are trans; it is because as you correctly state they are MEN.

LWS is held in public spaces. No one can be asked to leave, so KJK by definition cannot be blamed for who turns up.

This may come as some surprise to you hard-left types, but most people are barely aware of Britain First and certainly couldn't name nor identify any members.

I see you still banging that "where are GB women on NI abortion access?" drum, even though you've been answered at https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4785874-stephen-whittle-inciting-violence-against-kjklws-belfast?reply=125476402 and
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4785874-stephen-whittle-inciting-violence-against-kjklws-belfast?reply=125495648 that we are already doing all we can.

I'm getting very confused here.

@Brackenfield are you saying that the speakers are this event weren't women? Or just not NI women? What were the ratios of male and female speakers please, ie 25 males spoke but only 1 female.

HaXXor agree, fully. Another reason for LWS being in public spaces is because activists repeatedly bullied and harassed and lied to venues to get the bookings cancelled and prevent women speaking, and did lovely things like kettling and smoke bombing. So the fact they're now gleeful about who is in a public space at what time is a mess of their making, not of the women trying to speak. Despite a bunch of misogynists.

And I'm sick and tired of the 'stop doing x and do y like I tell you because I am the judge of what is worthy and what women may or may not do or have'. For goodness sake go and run a parish council or something and boss them about to your hearts content.

Do you think 11 year old girls are capable of making an informed choice about whether they will ever want to be mothers?

An abortion rarely affects future reproductive choices but puberty blockers/cross sex hormones and elective hysterectomy do.

But weird for you to conflate the two.

Mumsnet has a history of supporting abortion options in NI btw.

https://www.justgiving.com/campaigns/charity/abortion-supportnetwork/GivingWeek

Actually on second thoughts, no, don't go and boss around a parish council or any other council. We got into this mess through superior lefties using their position and power to force their values on others with complete inability to respect anyone else's views or autonomy, forcing out anyone who wasn't One Of Them like Margot Leadbetter trying to keep the neighbourhood pure, and creating absolute lack of political diversity so that any connection with the actual local populace was lost.

The above post was just a ye olde Justgiving link btw.

here’s a screenshot instead.

Medically-unnecessary hysterectomy is not the same as abortion and you know it. A woman can become pregnant again after an abortion. A hysterectomy is irreversible.

I think you and Brackenfield both fail to realise that if birth rates fall too low, govts act to force them up. Look up Romania's Decree 770. Only because other women have several children can a woman be child-free or stop at one child. I explain this and other fundamentals of materialist feminism at https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4778000-can-mnhq-set-up-a-new-discussion-category-called-feminism-sex-gender-discussion-inclusive-non-gc?reply=125209477

Feminism is about women's rights, not about being able to make any choice you like and damn the consequences for yourself and others.

Well, I never had kids but I wouldn't ever, ever, campaign to remove the rights of teen girls to make that decision in the future.

It is vile, absolutely vile.

I've already asked you what it is that this Jolene (whoever she is) said that you find so offensive.

I've watched some of the speeches and skimmed throught the rest, and I didn't notice any of the women introducing herself as Jolene. Can you give a synopsis of what she said or tell me what time she was speaking so that I can listen to it for myself and decide whether I also find it offensive?

The whole point of this event (as has been explained to you many times) is to Let Women Speak. I assume Jolene is a woman, so she has a right to speak. I think KJK has even let female TRAs speak at some of her events. Does that make KJK a TRA?

Who made you the arbiter of who and what I should know about? That's some arrogance there. Why should I care about who is in a tiny, fringe, political organisation? That would require letting Britain First live rent-free in my head more than I care to.

ANYONE female can speak at LWS, just by turning up and asking. These are not invited speakers. KJK did not invite this Jolene, KJK handed her the mike like every other woman. Even if KJK did recognise her, denying her the mike would be censorship, the very thing that KJK is protesting against with LWS.

It was a Black woman, a triple survivor of cancer, whom KJK put her arm around to support her whilst she spoke. That's what "cosying up to" looks like.

"Have a read of the history of feminism on the island of Ireland, it's historically been trans inclusive..."

Hi, Brackenfield. Could you expand on this statement? I am honestly bemused by it, unless, as seems likely, the definitions of "feminism" and "historically" have been reimagined.

How old are you and what is your understanding of "historical"? Of course you need not answer, but I'm genuinely curious. I'm Irish. I've considered myself an Irish feminist for four decades. The requirement for Irish feminism to be "trans inclusive" is, in fact, very, very new. As in, a phenomenon of the past five to eight years.

I've been politically engaged on women's isses/feminism for nearly 40 years and "trans inclusion" really was not a thing. As far as I can see, it is a forced teaming that has developed in the past decade. Trans inclusion has not by any means been a core tenet of Irish feminism - by "trans inclusion", I presume you mean the inclusion of males with a gender identity as primary actors and a primary focus of activism and actions ostensibly designed to highlight the particular needs, challenges and vulnerabilities of women (1.0).

I mean, it's absolutely fine to include and/or centre this subset of males in your political worldview and activism. Goodness knows you've had plenty of success. But I would argue strongly that it is not feminism and I can say with certainty that it has not been an "historical" concern of the feminists who fought over many years for the human rights and dignity of women in this country.

What has the inspirational black woman, who had suffered so much through cancer,(41 minutes in), to do with someone called Jolene?

Bracken, you need to be specific and give details or links if you want people to be able to reply.

Ooh how many TW ended up in the Magdalene laundries?

This.

And it took so long for Ireland to get legal abortion. Which is somehow British feminists' fault, even though Ireland is an independant country that the UK rightly has no say in the internal affairs of. It's telling that Irish trans people got the GRA long before Irish women got abortion.

Perhaps if Irish feminists centred women, instead being distracted by men who wish to become women, they might have won legal abortion sooner without it needing Savita's death to catalyse that change.

Lol, that didn't take long, even I thought it would take a few more posts.

So the reason that Posey Parker should leave Belfast is because of the attendance of two people no-one's ever heard of, but you disagree with, you erroneously object to women not campaigning for something that they did indeed campaign for and, again erroneously, you object to Posie 'doing feminism' when she categorically states she isn't.

So you managed two people no one except you knows, you disapprove of something that you said didn't happen, when it did happen, and you don't think she should be campaigning for something that she isn't campaigning for anyway, before you descended into the usual TRA bollocks.

Hint. Women aren't going to be, do, say or agree with things, on the back of you demanding it.

You'd think TRAs would've found that out by now 😁

Do I need to ensure I'm presenting myself well enough as a woman each time I need to nip to the loo?

If you are male, please stay out of women's loos.

"Have a read of the history of feminism on the island of Ireland, it's historically been trans inclusive..."

Oh, did I miss one?

So we have people I don't approve of, not doing feminism the way I like, or at all, not campaigning for things I'm telling you to campaign for, and now historrrry.

I'm going to stick my neck out, and estimate there will be at least two, possibly three, more reasons why Bracken wants to shut women down. But none of them the real one,

Which is 'I don't like women speaking about this'.

I wonder why!

Good point.

I'm just going to copy my post from yesterday.

I've just watched the woman in Belfast, raw as hell and shaking, talking about the trauma of her mastectomy. The two women in the background wiping their eyes and embracing each other in a spontaneous act of support.

And KJK, brushing away tears and physically supporting the speaker while she finished her harrowing speech.

And, faintly, in the background you can hear those revolting people singing and dancing and trying to drown out these women's voices.

There's not a person on the planet, other than a handful of violent misogynists, who can't see exactly who is standing on the right fucking side of history.

I know KJK ends her videos with I never lose. I can guarantee you, she's absolutely bloody right.

People are accusing KJK of being a Nazi sympathiser because someone called Jolene from Britain First turned up in Belfast to an female-only open mic event and was given the mic for three minutes like all the other women who wanted it. It's not even a given that KJK knew who this Jolene is, and even if she did, giving someone a mic isn't the same as agreeing with them.

I doubt that a Nazi sympathiser would put her arm around a Black woman to support her in speaking out about her cancer ordeal.

What's being done here on this thread is some spectacular whataboutery to distract from the fact that Stephen Whittle used a pic of KJK covered in soup and the term "NZ welcome" to call for violence towards KJK because she speaks her mind and empowers other women to do the same.

A trans man, gone through surgery, has a penis.

No, she doesn't. Back to biology class for you. A penis contains specific erectile tissues, like the corpus cavernosa. Have a diagram from Gray's to illustrate this. A transman might have a constructed phallus made out of tissue taken from the arm, leg, or torso. This is not a penis.

They should use the women's spaces?

Yes, or a single occupant unisex facility, or a mixed-sex facility. They might have to explain themselves in a women's space, but that's happened to me as well and it's not onerous. If you bothered to read my materialist feminism 101 post, you'd understand that capacity to undergo pregnancy versus capacity to force someone else to undergo pregnancy is the source of all sex inequality. Now, does this hypothetical transman fall into the "can be pregnant at some point in life" category or the "can rape someone into pregnancy" category?