Would you ever consider a transman a man?

[Sidaway]

Parallel question to this really:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4782092-would-you-ever-consider-a-transwoman-a-woman

Would the straight women here consider a trans-identified female, who "passed" really well, as a romantic/sexual partner?

And for the lesbian women here, would that "passing" be a turn-off?

**Being a woman OR a man isn’t a matter of opinion.

No. They aren't men.

No. And NO again, but in capitals.

We both know that he is a female biologically, but even looking at him naked, the overall picture says man. Until you get to the genitals. It was very confusing at first because you are looking at someone who looks completely male, other than that part, it doesn't even register with me anymore though. I have been with men with a whole range of penis shapes and sizes, now one with a vagina.

I can not look at him and see a woman, I have tried. He looks like a man.

I am not attracted to butch lesbians, or androgynous people of either sex. I am only attracted to people with a male body shape and face and the lack of penis doesn't put me off.

So to fit myself into a category I would say straight, because there is more to attraction than gentitals, I am only attracted to male presenting people. (Is there a sexuality for that?)

(All whilst knowing he can never switch sex, I am not denying that - just that for me personally I am happy to date anyone convincingly male.)

I personally wouldn't date a trans woman. Hypocrite eh!

No

The tragedy of all this is the teenage girls who've been sold down the river by adults who should have protected them. As this thread shows, in addition to brutal surgery and drug use, they've limited their dating pool and likely wrecked their future fertility. physical & mental health. It's a disaster of massive proportions for these young women.

Our collective inability to protect them from the attentions of Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence, GIRES and countless other adults determined to sell them the lie that they can change sex is utterly depressing.

No. It would be impossible for me to think that way.

No. I might casually think of them
As such if they 'pass'on looking the part, but wouldn't think so once I knew their biological sex.

In terms of dating, I'm straight, although wouldn't say I'd definitely never be attracted to a woman. I'm more certain I'd never be attracted to a trans person though.

We have a well known tv show (not UK) where the hosts were very TWAW. The hosts were two men and one woman- all sound very much TWAW and they had a marine biologist on who proclaimed that as prawns change sex i
we should accept that humans change too 🙄

They invited a transman on the show and it was hilarious to see how uncomfortable the two men were and how they kept alluding to the fact the transman was really a woman, ie NOT a man like themselves!

Haven’t heard much TWAW or TMAM after that.

The transman was s good sport with his little hands and beard, and you could tell a mile away.

Mind you, I still don’t think anything is wrong with being and saying twatw or tmatm - they are generally distinctly different from women and men, even if maybe a few individuals «pass».

No of course not.

Trans men are trans men, and trans women are trans women. That’s the best I can do - they’ll never “literally” join the sex class they have transitioned towards. So a trans man might pass really, really well on a photograph, but then when you see them moving around and the wider hips, the narrow shoulders, the smaller skull, the smaller hands and feet… you realise they are not a “real” man, even if they don’t look like a woman either.

The femaleness a TM was born with is encoded in every fibre of their being, no matter how they modify themselves. I wouldn’t want a TM as a boyfriend - and I’m sure they wouldn’t want me either.

Overall, I think TM get a rougher deal than TW. When you consider that most TW keep their genitalia intact, TM seem to put themselves through the ringer to live their ‘authentic’ lives. A double mastectomy is not a walk in the park. It’s huge, huge, painful surgery.

Yes, this is the tragedy of it.

This is full of contradictions. You’ve been with men with different penis shapes plus one with a vagina? You only like male body shapes but you don’t mind the lack of penis? You aren’t attracted to anyone androgynous but the very definition of androgynous could be applied to ‘looks like a man but doesn’t have a penis.’

I have been with men with a whole range of penis shapes and sizes, now one with a vagina.

A man with a vagina? 🤣

@Kanaloa I was answering the OP question; if you consider yourself straight would you consider a trans man as a sexual partner.

My answer to that is yes. I consider myself straight as a woman that is attracted to male presenting people, the closest sexuality that describes that is straight.

Wether other people agree that I am straight or not, the OP said - if YOU consider YOURSELF.

As I said my DP doesn't consider me straight for the obvious reason, but I am allowed to consider myself how I like. I am not attracted to feminine looking people.

I don't think you're a hypocrite and I do think you genuinely mean what you say, and I'm honestly not trying to be mean or rude to you when I say this, truly........but I find it hard to believe you can have this level of belief. I have met quite a lot of transmen, and I've seen quite a lot of them without clothes on and I can honestly say I've never once been actually convinced that any of them were male. Some have looked more male than others, but still there are many hints that they are women.
But perhaps your fiancee is different.

@Sidaway "And for the lesbian women here, would that "passing" be a turn-off?"

As a Lesbian, I find men's bodies physically disgusting. So yes I would find a passing transman repellent.
Additionally the mentality of self-hating being a woman is also a giant turn off.
I love women; their bodies, their spirits, their joy in being a woman.

No

No

Of course you can consider yourself how you like. But you can’t really say you’re not attracted to androgynous people, you like manly looking people who have a vagina. The two statements contradict each other.

I know some people who consider themselves ‘straight/gay plus this one exception to my rule’ or ‘homoflexible’ or ‘heteroflexible’ when I suppose technically they are bisexual but it’s so that they are attracted to someone outside of their normal orientation that they wouldn’t list it on a dating profile.

Some transactivists seem to use ‘androsexual’ for fancying men & transmen and gynesexual for women & transwomen but that seems wrong to me because andrology and gynaecology obvs refer to medical specialisms relating to male and female reproductive systems! Perhaps that’s why such a label hasn’t caught on?

Thanks for sharing your story and it’s always good to be reminded of the trans people who acknowledge their sex and accept that their transition is cosmetic rather than complete. More of them would make for a much healthier debate!

No. Biological reality is a thing.

@postapesto maybe my problem is I haven't seen enough naked women to know what identifiers I should be seeing.

Broad muscular chest (no breasts post surgery) ample body hair, narrow hips, massive quads and hamstrings, beard, muscles everywhere, strong hairy forearms, ugly man feet.The only give away is the genitals.

The job he does, if he didn't pass as male it would be dangerous for him and he has never had any issues there either so I am fairly confident that he passes.

I am interested to know why you have seen so many trans men naked, but not in a sexual context. Maybe that is why you are so confident you could always identify them. You seem much more experienced than me. He is the only trans man I have seen naked and I have seen very few women naked and certainly never in circumstances that I would be actively looking at their body.

No