Would you ever consider a transman a man?

[Sidaway]

Parallel question to this really:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4782092-would-you-ever-consider-a-transwoman-a-woman

Would the straight women here consider a trans-identified female, who "passed" really well, as a romantic/sexual partner?

And for the lesbian women here, would that "passing" be a turn-off?

@SmartHome That's awful. Some people really shouldn't be parents. I hope she hasn't undergone medical transition yet?

I don't believe so but haven't seen her for a few months. She was wearing a binder last time I saw her and didn't look like she was taking testosterone but I don't know My hope is she will go back to being a boring lesbian.

@SmartHome that is absolutely heartbreaking. That poor girl.

I just finished reading Hannah barnes' book and it's clear that so many of the young girls seeking to transition are doing so in the wake of trauma, very often sexual assault and abuse, and with a load of other comorbidities (self harm, eating disorders etc.)

I haven’t read the whole thread - 228 replies to date - but from what I’ve seen of it, the sentiment of the replies is exactly the same as the other thread about trans women. And I’d expect nothing else, as it would be very odd for someone to consider a trans woman to be an actual woman, but a trans man not to be an actual man.

It’s understandable in a way. It would be nice to be able to opt out of sex based oppression, violence, and prejudice. I mean it doesn’t work but I can see how it is appealing.

And especially as a young teen when your body begins to grow and change and you begin to attract very frightening and intimidating attention from older boys and men. It would definitely be attractive to think there’s this piece of fabric that will keep your body the same, a tablet that will keep you the same/ensure your safety and stop you from being catcalled and publicly harassed etc. I think for many of these young people it isn’t about wanting to be a man, but more about not wanting to change or become a woman.

No.
A trans man is a biological woman.
I would not enter into a romantic relationship with a trans man because I am not a lesbian.
I would of course use the name they wished me to use etc but I would not consider them a biological male.

I looked at some online photos of this person and it's pretty obvious to me that they are a man ...just from the face

The second pic on Google search is absolutely blatantly male.

I really like the sort of bullying, threatening, coercive undertone in the arse-licking article about that person:

(A note on gender pronouns: Indya is nonbinary and prefers to use “they” and “them,” but is also navigating how that works in a society that has long oriented around cisgender or binary trans identities. Most people around Indya use “she,” which Indya says is fine to use throughout this story. See her Instagram post in April about this very topic.)

https://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/a27378298/indya-moore-transgender-pose-interview/

I removed the Instagram link but I'm sure any of you can find it easily if you're dying to know more about the permissions you have been temporarily granted in respect of the words you use.

I'd have bloody loved it. I was getting sexually harassed from the age of 9 or 10. It really ramped up when I started travelling to school on my own aged 11.

No.

He actually looks remarkably like a male friend of mine. I watched a lot of that show he was on (Pose) because Patti LuPone was in it. He looked male on that too (as did the other TW) The show was pretty awful too.

• straight women won't fancy them (missing something between the legs, and just not... quite right)
• gay men wont (ditto)
• lesbians wont (too masculine)
• straight men won't (ditto)

Actually, my lesbian friend is in a long term relationship (married) to a trans man. She would never have had a relationship with a male person / trans woman and I think her Trans partner has only had relationships with females, before and after transitioning.

All the relationships I know of are based on sex attraction, not gender.

So your lesbian friend is in a lesbian relationship.

Men look, feel, smell and even taste different to women in my experience

I fancy men

i would not fancy a woman regardless of what cosmetic surgery she had had

so it’s a no from me

and that’s not even getting into the reasonable expectation a straight woman in her reproductive years will have of conceiving a child with her partner

I've stopped following this thread but found an interesting tweet.

A group of transmen set up a football team just for trans men, in order to avoid locker room issues. So they weren't harassed and felt safe together.

According to the video lost 8-1 to a men's team.

twitter.com/hannahberrelli/status/1646121529388744704?s=46&t=A2fpFNgDRyXF2d6ye97wEA

That’s just daft!

Not you!
But the whole pretence of being something they are not, trying to fit in with what they are not, then collecting a bunch of pretenders to be «different from the other girls».

Oy vey.

It reminds me of the druggies, I mean wannabe hippies in my youth who were just as non-conformist conformist as all the other groups!
I hope they grow up undamaged

Actually, my lesbian friend is in a long term relationship (married) to a trans man. She would never have had a relationship with a male person

Why not just call them two lesbians?

So please enlighten me where is the line between Transman and butch lesbian? 🤔

One knows they are a woman. The other is in denial.

The irony of them talking about how nice it is to have a locker room without any men in it,for their dignity and safety...and all they had to do was to not be women anymore to achieve that.

If all we have to do to get our single sex spaces and sports back is get a hair cut and start using a male name, call me Bob and fetch the clippers!

So please enlighten me where is the line between Transman and butch lesbian?

..... you what?

I'm sorry, a masculine presenting female who has no confusion regarding their biological reality and identity and is attracted exclusively to other biological females - is more or less a bloke?

Seriously? Is that what you're saying?

Are we back into the realms of 'doesn't look femininely pretty = trans bloke' which was one of India Willoughby's gems of the day, and 'any female not doing pretty to be attractive to men, and not shaggable because refuses to do sex with men frigid = might as well be a bloke'?

It's like hanging out in a pub with a bunch of particularly misogynistic men in the bloody dark ages.

A transman, is a biologically female person who for a raft of possible reasons is wishing to present to the world an illusion that they are actually male. They may be of any sexuality, the defining feature is biological female identifying as a man.

A lesbian is a biologically female person who is perfectly happy being biologically female, may present in any way they bloody choose, and is exclusively attracted to other biological females.

I am about an inch away from identifying as straight until all this batshit passes by.

Still gobsmacked.

We've got back to the point of

Woman - stereotypically pretty, feminine, sexually useful to men. No inner life, and if not presenting in ways that create happy penises is not woman

Lesbian - if happy penis making then sex object for men, or is a bloke if sad penis involved. All depends on femininity and sexual usefulness to said penis. (obvs nothing to do with her inner life/feelings/attractions, women don't exist outside penis servicing.)

Old women = longer sexually useful to men = subhuman and pointless, sad penis. She's probably got a cat and a cauldron, if she fails to do the shitwork properly or opens her mouth then get the pitchforks.

The misogyny is stunning. Absolutely bloody stunning. There are actually people this regressive and oblivious.

Probably writing bitter blogs about being single.

The thing is, they don't pass. As MrsTerryPratchett said, there are the pheromones. And my body reacts to that scent in a man I'm attracted to.