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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Braverman vows to stamp out grooming gangs behind organised child sex abuse

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 03/04/2023 00:30

The Home Secretary, writing in The Mail on Sunday, pledges to 'track down and punish the grooming gangs with the same sense of mission and determination' used to pursue the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, the black British teenager who was killed in a racially motivated attack at a bus stop in South London in 1993.

Ms Braverman, who was born in Harrow, in North-West London, to a Kenyan mother and Mauritian father, writes: 'The time has come to make right one of the greatest injustices seen in Britain in modern times. The systematic rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls by organised gangs of older men – and the disgraceful failure of the authorities to act despite ample evidence – is a stain on our country.'

A Buddhist, Ms Braverman describes the 'perpetrators' as 'groups of men, almost all British-Pakistani, who hold cultural attitudes completely incompatible with British values'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11928629/SUELLA-BRAVERMAN-mission-ensure-really-no-hiding-place-gangs-grooming-young-girls.html

I am not sure if this is just the DM take on what she said, or if it accurately reflects what she said.

If she did say this and not talk about how men of all cultures, given the opportunity, have and will exploit young women, then she is letting down all the women who are exploited.

OP posts:
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AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:49

Talking about organised sex abuse on a thread about organised sex abuse is not whataboutery

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:49

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:39

Do you know what "whataboutery" is? It's about derailing onto a totally different issue and reversing victim and offender.

"Whataboutery" would be me asking about why we aren't talking about the fact Pakistani men die younger (I just made that up to illustrate).

Talking about the topic at hand and presenting a different point of view is just a debate.

Whataboutery is disagreeing with whatever I think, surely you know that?

Jonei · 04/04/2023 10:50

One thing they have done is block the proposals for Gender Self Id, and they have commisisioned the Cass Review which has led to significant changes in the way that children with dysphoria are going to be assessed going forward.

And that is a good start.

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:50

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:47

What is the difference between a "CSE" gang and a "CSA" ring?
Men who systematically use their power to abuse vulnerable victims all seem the same to me.

If you have a group of Catholic piests, for example, facilitating abuse of children abd covering up for each other, how is thar different to a CSE gang in your mind? ConfusedHmm

It’s not “my mind” there is a well defined difference between CSA (child sexual abuse) and CSE (child sexual exploitation). You’re only showing your ignorance here.

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:52

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:49

Talking about organised sex abuse on a thread about organised sex abuse is not whataboutery

Lol. What you listed wasn’t “organised sex abuse”, it was all types of child sexual abuse carried out by individuals in positions of trust/power. Nothing like CSE.

NotHavingIt · 04/04/2023 10:52

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:49

Whataboutery is disagreeing with whatever I think, surely you know that?

'Whataboutery' is trying to deflect and shift the discussion away from an area one would rather not discuss.

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:53

Explain the difference to me then, as you clearly understand very well.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:53

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:45

I suspect the reason is that nobody is really down-playing or denying there is an issue with VAWG in general, or with girls being groomed on -line, or with poor rape convictions, or that there is an issue with misogynist police officers

We literally just had an enquiry that said misogyny in the Met had been downplayed for years Confused
Andthen the current commander continued with the "bad apple" analogy Confused

and the conservatives are very enthusiastically downplaying rape convictions. Dominic Raab had to apologise for making an incorrect statement that convictions were higher now than in 2010 just the other day.

Ah, Dominic Raab the man who is worried about the level of misogyny against men.

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:54

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:53

Explain the difference to me then, as you clearly understand very well.

No. It’s not my job to educate you in the basics.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:55

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:48

But she didn’t. She is being quoted out of context.

No doubt, then she has put out a statement clarifying what she said then?

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:55

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:54

No. It’s not my job to educate you in the basics.

Grin Great.
EndlessTea · 04/04/2023 10:56

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:49

Talking about organised sex abuse on a thread about organised sex abuse is not whataboutery

The Catholic Church is not a ‘grooming gang’. It has been exposed, it is well-noted.

That’s a very different kettle of fish to these grooming gangs which target victims from other religious and ethnic groups from themselves specifically because of certain beliefs they hold.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:56

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:48

I'm so confused

An accurate summary of this thread.

NotHavingIt · 04/04/2023 10:57

The fact that the name Suella Braverman was on the thread starter was like a red rag to some very angry and raging bulls. She has become a lightening rod for the expresion of tribal hatred - and largely by a tribe which claims its membership is predicated on love, compassion , kindness and moral righteousness.

There is always a blind spot - and whilst some cast themsleves in the role the goodies or saviours they project their own dark shadow onto others. " We're kind" "We're egalitarian" " We are the good guys" Meanwhile "you are all evil. despicable Tory voters who don't care about anything other than money and whipping up the mob" before reporting people's posts for crimes against humanity.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:58

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:49

Talking about organised sex abuse on a thread about organised sex abuse is not whataboutery

I've been told that talking about politics on a thread about politics is whataboutery, so I fear you may be wrong.
I've been told that talking about what a woman is on a thread about what a woman is is whataboutery, so I fear you may be wrong.

Shall I continue?

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 10:58

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:53

Explain the difference to me then, as you clearly understand very well.

P107

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/942454/Workinggtogethertoosafeguardchildrenninteragencyyguidance.pdf

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 11:00

NotHavingIt · 04/04/2023 10:52

'Whataboutery' is trying to deflect and shift the discussion away from an area one would rather not discuss.

So for example posters trying to shift away from the focus on why Braverman needed to comment on Asian grooming gangs in the same week as her selection meeting?

NotHavingIt · 04/04/2023 11:00

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-03-07/debates/87B621A3-050D-4B27-A655-2EDD4AAE6481/IllegalMigrationBill

Link to Braverman's actual presentations to parliament.

EndlessTea · 04/04/2023 11:00

I think there are people on this thread who believe certain religious groups should continue to be handled with kid gloves.

That effective strategy which worked to prevent extremism in the UK. 🫤

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 11:01

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 11:00

So for example posters trying to shift away from the focus on why Braverman needed to comment on Asian grooming gangs in the same week as her selection meeting?

No one’s done that. We discussed it for three pages and you didn’t read any of the answers or points and just keep posting the same question over and over with snide remarks.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 11:01

NotHavingIt · 04/04/2023 10:57

The fact that the name Suella Braverman was on the thread starter was like a red rag to some very angry and raging bulls. She has become a lightening rod for the expresion of tribal hatred - and largely by a tribe which claims its membership is predicated on love, compassion , kindness and moral righteousness.

There is always a blind spot - and whilst some cast themsleves in the role the goodies or saviours they project their own dark shadow onto others. " We're kind" "We're egalitarian" " We are the good guys" Meanwhile "you are all evil. despicable Tory voters who don't care about anything other than money and whipping up the mob" before reporting people's posts for crimes against humanity.

I thought we weren't allowed to talk about Braverman on this thread?

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 11:02

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:55

No doubt, then she has put out a statement clarifying what she said then?

Why should she? What she said was clear it’s not her fault the media is quoting her out of context and trashing her out of misogyny and racism.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 11:03

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 11:01

No one’s done that. We discussed it for three pages and you didn’t read any of the answers or points and just keep posting the same question over and over with snide remarks.

I must have missed those three pages.

I am sure though it is just a coincidence that nothing has been done for 13 years and then when Braverman needed a headline she announced she was going to have a consultation about maybe doing something sometime in the future.

Jonei · 04/04/2023 11:04

So for example posters trying to shift away from the focus on why Braverman needed to comment on Asian grooming gangs in the same week as her selection meeting?

Who cares. Why are her reasons for doing something more important to you than the protection of these vulnerable girls / making the perpetrators accountable? Would you rather nothing was done because you think she's not doing it for the right reasons? Somewhat warped logic you have there.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 11:04

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 11:02

Why should she? What she said was clear it’s not her fault the media is quoting her out of context and trashing her out of misogyny and racism.

Are you saying the Daily Mail is misogynistic and racist?

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