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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Braverman vows to stamp out grooming gangs behind organised child sex abuse

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 03/04/2023 00:30

The Home Secretary, writing in The Mail on Sunday, pledges to 'track down and punish the grooming gangs with the same sense of mission and determination' used to pursue the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, the black British teenager who was killed in a racially motivated attack at a bus stop in South London in 1993.

Ms Braverman, who was born in Harrow, in North-West London, to a Kenyan mother and Mauritian father, writes: 'The time has come to make right one of the greatest injustices seen in Britain in modern times. The systematic rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls by organised gangs of older men – and the disgraceful failure of the authorities to act despite ample evidence – is a stain on our country.'

A Buddhist, Ms Braverman describes the 'perpetrators' as 'groups of men, almost all British-Pakistani, who hold cultural attitudes completely incompatible with British values'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11928629/SUELLA-BRAVERMAN-mission-ensure-really-no-hiding-place-gangs-grooming-young-girls.html

I am not sure if this is just the DM take on what she said, or if it accurately reflects what she said.

If she did say this and not talk about how men of all cultures, given the opportunity, have and will exploit young women, then she is letting down all the women who are exploited.

OP posts:
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jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:59

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 09:35

It wasn’t a political decision, it was an economic necessity to pay off public debt for a series of wars that Tony Blair signed us up to! And they were not “massive cuts” look at the bloody chart.

How and whether the government spends money is always a political decision.

A cut to a budget in absolute terms of 20% is a massive cut. In real terms the cut to the Criminal Justice system budget between 2010 and 2016 was about 40%.

EndlessTea · 04/04/2023 10:00

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 09:42

However, in places such as Rotherham, despite being a small number of the population, when it comes to CSA, men of British Pakistani origin are vastly over represented in those communities. Which is interesting isn't it.

Rotherham has a higher percentage of British Pakistanis than the UK average in any case. Are you sure the "over representation" isn't because you are comparing to the UK average, so it's skewed by demographics not ethnicity?

If that were the case, how would you explain that their victims are not from their own ethnic group?

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:02

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:59

How and whether the government spends money is always a political decision.

A cut to a budget in absolute terms of 20% is a massive cut. In real terms the cut to the Criminal Justice system budget between 2010 and 2016 was about 40%.

No, the budget and how it is spent is not always a political decision. In fact, the government literally has no choice regarding where most of the money.

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 10:03

@AdamRyan 🙄 of course, the man uses acetal evidence and studies but go ahead and ignore actual facts while you type utter nonsense

Jonei · 04/04/2023 10:04

I tend to take random twitter commentators with a pinch of salt

Course you do. Because to read the actual evidence they've laid out there from a number of reputable sources would mean you would have to rethink your position.

And you couldn't have that now. Could you.

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 10:04

@AdamRyan what you just insinuated to @Jonei is disgusting. Are you calling her racist? Because you should apologise right now.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:05

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 09:58

I completely agree. I’ve never voted Tory in my life, but these posters seem to have an obsessive hatred for the entire party and so apparently no Tory can ever do anything right/good for women and girls.

Earlier in the thread I asked what the government had done in the last 13 years to reduce the chances of grooming gangs being effective. No one was able to answer.

How about you give one example of something that the Tory government has done in the past 13 years that has been good for women and girls?

Certainly the massive cuts to public services have been hugely deterimental, for example in an effort to keep this thread vaguely on topic the massive cuts to the Criminal Justice system.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:06

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:02

No, the budget and how it is spent is not always a political decision. In fact, the government literally has no choice regarding where most of the money.

And Boris Johnson was only in charge of the pot plants in No 10. Yup.

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

They’re not focusing on any one ethnicity. Read the government press release. The only mention of ethnicity is that they are going to collect the data on ethnicity of perpetrators and victims. It’s like you have no idea that the media have a left wing bias and are not reporting fairly.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-to-clamp-down-on-grooming-gangs

PM to clamp down on Grooming Gangs

Evil grooming gangs who target children and young women will be stamped out under new plans unveiled by Prime Minister Rishi Sunak today (Monday 3 April)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-to-clamp-down-on-grooming-gangs

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:07

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 10:04

@AdamRyan what you just insinuated to @Jonei is disgusting. Are you calling her racist? Because you should apologise right now.

I am sure anyone reading @jonei's posts for themselves will be able to determine whether or not they are racist.

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 10:08

@AdamRyan are you going to clarify what you just said to @Jonei I think you’re accusing her of racism. Is that right?

Jonei · 04/04/2023 10:08

Anyway, we just have to agree to disagree. I'd rather see effective action on sexual abuse as a whole than a "consultation" about a particular ethnicity but totally understand why you might want to focus on the abuse of white girls by brown men.

Do you understand? I'm not sure you do. Would you like to elaborate on your understanding on why I want this?

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 10:08

I’m reporting both those comments.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:08

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:07

They’re not focusing on any one ethnicity. Read the government press release. The only mention of ethnicity is that they are going to collect the data on ethnicity of perpetrators and victims. It’s like you have no idea that the media have a left wing bias and are not reporting fairly.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-to-clamp-down-on-grooming-gangs

Are you saying that the media quoted in the OP and the Minister they quote are left wing?

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:09

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 10:08

@AdamRyan are you going to clarify what you just said to @Jonei I think you’re accusing her of racism. Is that right?

I am sure anyone reading @jonei's posts for themselves will be able to determine whether or not they are racist.

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:10

Actual experts say this is complex and not straightforward to analyse.

Priti Patel herself said "This paper demonstrates how difficult it has been to draw conclusions about the characteristics of offenders. That is why the government’s forthcoming Tackling Child Sexual Abuse Strategy will commit to improving our understanding of child sexual abuse - including around ethnicity."

Twitter analysts tend to cherry pick and present stats that support their argument. There are plenty of other analysts saying the opposite.

Demonising a population is a populist tactic and I hate saying our politics reduced to that.

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 10:10

Jonei · 04/04/2023 09:52

This person also made a documentary about the situation IIRC

(So not a "random Twitter person" as one poster has been rude enough to say)

Jonei · 04/04/2023 10:10

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:07

I am sure anyone reading @jonei's posts for themselves will be able to determine whether or not they are racist.

Are you accusing me of being racist jgw1? Don't be coy now. Speak your truth.

Howpo · 04/04/2023 10:10

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 08:59

Rotherham is historic is it? Nothing to see here?

Despite 20 men having already been convicted for their involvement in 'grooming' activity between 1997 and 2013, police officers believe that many more victims are still to come forward and that other perpetrators may still be free.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/rotherham-grooming-more-than-1000-victims-identified-between-1997-and-2013-3542879

Isn't this a terrible indictment on Government policy and inaction?

If some want to make this a Left/Right issue, which it really isn't, its a policing issue..... why are Tory voters defending this appalling record?

Jonei · 04/04/2023 10:11

ResisterRex · 04/04/2023 10:10

This person also made a documentary about the situation IIRC

(So not a "random Twitter person" as one poster has been rude enough to say)

Indeed not random at all.

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:11

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:05

Earlier in the thread I asked what the government had done in the last 13 years to reduce the chances of grooming gangs being effective. No one was able to answer.

How about you give one example of something that the Tory government has done in the past 13 years that has been good for women and girls?

Certainly the massive cuts to public services have been hugely deterimental, for example in an effort to keep this thread vaguely on topic the massive cuts to the Criminal Justice system.

Bloody hell. I answered your sea lion nonsense on CSE gangs already! Hundreds of gang members are in prison. Any normal person would understand that reduces the chances of them “being effective” abusing victims.

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:11

Jonei · 04/04/2023 10:08

Anyway, we just have to agree to disagree. I'd rather see effective action on sexual abuse as a whole than a "consultation" about a particular ethnicity but totally understand why you might want to focus on the abuse of white girls by brown men.

Do you understand? I'm not sure you do. Would you like to elaborate on your understanding on why I want this?

Why don't you elaborate why this issue is a higher priority for you than sexual abuse of children generally? Or the appalling rape statistics at the moment?

What is it about this particular issue that makes it more of an issue than sex trafficking eastern Europeans, for example?

EndlessTea · 04/04/2023 10:12

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 09:52

It amazes me how two posters have dominated and made this thread about themselves and some weird obsession with Tory bashing to a bunch of women they don’t know and haven’t a clue how they voted. You don’t have to be a Tory party member to want a tougher stance and justice for the women and girls who were victims of these grooming gangs. It also doesn’t mean you’re ignoring all the other horrific child abuse and pedophile rings that exist.

Also, the Tories are our current government, so if ordinary citizens criticise or praise those in power, it is completely different to discussing party politics.

Obviously those in opposition have a job to do, to scrutinise the government and expose its mistakes, which is essential for democracy, but non-politicians, such as myself and many others here, don’t have to do that.

We can look at what the government is doing, hear the arguments of the opposition, and make up our own mind. It isn’t our job to default to finding fault in the government.

We are mostly ordinary citizens here - we are not politicians in government or in opposition.

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 10:12

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 10:08

Are you saying that the media quoted in the OP and the Minister they quote are left wing?

No.

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