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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suella Braverman vows to stamp out grooming gangs behind organised child sex abuse

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 03/04/2023 00:30

The Home Secretary, writing in The Mail on Sunday, pledges to 'track down and punish the grooming gangs with the same sense of mission and determination' used to pursue the murderers of Stephen Lawrence, the black British teenager who was killed in a racially motivated attack at a bus stop in South London in 1993.

Ms Braverman, who was born in Harrow, in North-West London, to a Kenyan mother and Mauritian father, writes: 'The time has come to make right one of the greatest injustices seen in Britain in modern times. The systematic rape, exploitation and abuse of young girls by organised gangs of older men – and the disgraceful failure of the authorities to act despite ample evidence – is a stain on our country.'

A Buddhist, Ms Braverman describes the 'perpetrators' as 'groups of men, almost all British-Pakistani, who hold cultural attitudes completely incompatible with British values'.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11928629/SUELLA-BRAVERMAN-mission-ensure-really-no-hiding-place-gangs-grooming-young-girls.html

I am not sure if this is just the DM take on what she said, or if it accurately reflects what she said.

If she did say this and not talk about how men of all cultures, given the opportunity, have and will exploit young women, then she is letting down all the women who are exploited.

OP posts:
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Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 09:12

Why do you repeat the same point while ignoring what we are saying. I think your connect to me above about Rotherham being historic needs clarifying. Why would you say this? Are you that ignorant?

PerkingFaintly · 04/04/2023 09:15

It does matter a great deal how she does it, though. And exactly what the it is, that she does.

And that will be driven by what her intentions.

If she does an excellent, effective job of genuinely reducing harm to vulnerable women and children across the UK, then I don't care if her motivation was to get votes.

In fact that's a normal motivation for politicians; why would anyone consider it odd?

If, on the other hand, it's an ineffective crowd-pleaser designed to look like she's doing something, but she's actually just running round making noise, then I won't be impressed. Or if she's running a public lynch mob – another great circus trick for pleasing the crowds – then ditto.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:15

If I have put on a stone each year for nine years, and then one year lose a pound, it is the biggest lose of weight I have had in a decade, but still does little to mitigate the problem.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:17

PerkingFaintly · 04/04/2023 09:15

It does matter a great deal how she does it, though. And exactly what the it is, that she does.

And that will be driven by what her intentions.

If she does an excellent, effective job of genuinely reducing harm to vulnerable women and children across the UK, then I don't care if her motivation was to get votes.

In fact that's a normal motivation for politicians; why would anyone consider it odd?

If, on the other hand, it's an ineffective crowd-pleaser designed to look like she's doing something, but she's actually just running round making noise, then I won't be impressed. Or if she's running a public lynch mob – another great circus trick for pleasing the crowds – then ditto.

Perhaps we could look at her previous achievements and that of the government of which she is a part to get a clue as to which it is likely to be?

twitterexile · 04/04/2023 09:18

AdamRyan · 03/04/2023 22:17

Rape and sexual abuse is absolutely rife. Not just of children. Not just of vulnerable women. But all women.

Grooming rings in churches, schools, sports, childrens homes etc all have been found

It's racist to make out that it's a problem of particular communities. If the conservatives were serious about tackling child abuse there are many other things they could do that would have more impact than cracking down on Pakistani men.

Dealing with pornography. Investing in social services. Reducing poverty in these communities. Dealing with rape myths and believing victims. Those things would benefit all victims. But no. Let's make out that this is a problem related to a particular ethnicity, rather than a man problem.

I guess this is your stupid equivalent of 'All Lives Matter' right?

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 09:19

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:10

Are you refering to the 25% cuts in funding for the Criminal Justice system that the current government have overseen?

The entire government saw cuts from 2010-2016 to pay off the public debt from the Iraq and Afghan wars. It wasn’t a 25% cut either. And since 2016, the funding has been increased and per my link higher up going to get significant increases for at least next few years.

“Like almost every governmental department in the UK, the Ministry of Justice was forced to contend with fewer resources in the 2010s, and saw its budget fall from 9.1 billion British pounds in 2009/10 to 7.35 billion British pounds in 2015/16. In the years since 2015/16, the budget of the Ministry of Justice has gradually increased, with the budget for 2021/22 reaching 9.43 billion British pounds.”
https://www.statista.com/topics/6150/criminal-justice-system-in-the-uk/#topicOverview

Ministry of Justice budget UK 2022 | Statista

In 2021/22 the budget for the United Kingdom's Ministry of Justice was 9.43 billion British pounds, a fairly significant increase on the 8.3 billion pounds budgeted in the 2019/20financial year.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1098367/justice-spending-in-the-uk/

twitterexile · 04/04/2023 09:20

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/04/2023 23:45

A vote for the Conservatives is a vote against women!

What's a woman?

PerkingFaintly · 04/04/2023 09:23

Blegh, that had a bit missing:

then I don't care if her motivation was also to get votes, by having done her job as Home Secretary well.

twitterexile · 04/04/2023 09:24

Jonei · 04/04/2023 08:43

It is true that in a majority white country the vast majority of perpetrators are white males, often under 30. It's not surprising at all.

However, in places such as Rotherham, despite being a small number of the population, when it comes to CSA, men of British Pakistani origin are vastly over represented in those communities. Which is interesting isn't it.

Obviously we want perpetrators of all CSA to be brought to justice. In order to do that, we need some profile of who they are, how they operate, and why.

People are largely accepting of this fact when bringing white males to justice.

But far less so when it comes to applying the same rules to non white men.

There's some appalling double standards here. And the only losers are the young vulnerable girls impacted by CSA.

And there are adults here who would happily continue to ignore this, because, they don't like the Tories.

Hideous.

100% agree. Sickening.

Jonei · 04/04/2023 09:27

I guess this is your stupid equivalent of 'All Lives Matter' right?

It certainly seems like it.

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:30

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 09:19

The entire government saw cuts from 2010-2016 to pay off the public debt from the Iraq and Afghan wars. It wasn’t a 25% cut either. And since 2016, the funding has been increased and per my link higher up going to get significant increases for at least next few years.

“Like almost every governmental department in the UK, the Ministry of Justice was forced to contend with fewer resources in the 2010s, and saw its budget fall from 9.1 billion British pounds in 2009/10 to 7.35 billion British pounds in 2015/16. In the years since 2015/16, the budget of the Ministry of Justice has gradually increased, with the budget for 2021/22 reaching 9.43 billion British pounds.”
https://www.statista.com/topics/6150/criminal-justice-system-in-the-uk/#topicOverview

I think we are in agreement that the current government took a political decision to make massive cuts to the Criminal Justice system. Why should we applaud them for reversing a small part of those cuts, when the dire consequences of their misguided policies were obvious from the start?

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:31

twitterexile · 04/04/2023 09:20

What's a woman?

I tried asking that a few times. Its best not as some people find it deeply upsetting when they discover they don't actually have an answer.

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 09:35

jgw1 · 04/04/2023 09:30

I think we are in agreement that the current government took a political decision to make massive cuts to the Criminal Justice system. Why should we applaud them for reversing a small part of those cuts, when the dire consequences of their misguided policies were obvious from the start?

It wasn’t a political decision, it was an economic necessity to pay off public debt for a series of wars that Tony Blair signed us up to! And they were not “massive cuts” look at the bloody chart.

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 09:39

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 08:43

with a GRC that is not the same as labours self ID policy. But you know that.

Labour don't have a self-id policy
KS specifically said trans rights don't trump womens rights and that TW are "legally" women if they have a GRC.

I read that as he will not change current policy. Which has been in place since 2010 with few problems until the Conservatives under maria miller started pushing self ID without consulting womens groups.

The conservatives have been very lucky/clever in getting the public to believe "they know what a woman is"

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 09:42

However, in places such as Rotherham, despite being a small number of the population, when it comes to CSA, men of British Pakistani origin are vastly over represented in those communities. Which is interesting isn't it.

Rotherham has a higher percentage of British Pakistanis than the UK average in any case. Are you sure the "over representation" isn't because you are comparing to the UK average, so it's skewed by demographics not ethnicity?

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 09:43

@AdamRyan yes they do, he’s reiterated it multiple times, he’s said 16 is too young for it but he hasn’t dropped it at all. Starmer saying trans rights don’t trump women’s is meaningless when he considers some men to be women, as he’s recently once again confirmed. He stated what the law is now. He hasn’t said he’s not going to bring in self ID.

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 09:44

A woman is an adult human female. @jgw1 what is your definition ?

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/04/2023 09:46

twitterexile · 04/04/2023 09:20

What's a woman?

A woman is an adult human female. The sex that have had their rights destroyed by 13 years of Tory government in the UK.

SB's words are worthless wittering from the Woman hating Tory party. I'm bewildered as to why people keep falling for their lies. The reality is that the Tories have practically decriminalised rape in this country.

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 09:47

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/04/2023 09:46

A woman is an adult human female. The sex that have had their rights destroyed by 13 years of Tory government in the UK.

SB's words are worthless wittering from the Woman hating Tory party. I'm bewildered as to why people keep falling for their lies. The reality is that the Tories have practically decriminalised rape in this country.

👏

Jonei · 04/04/2023 09:47

Are you sure the "over representation" isn't because you are comparing to the UK average, so it's skewed by demographics not ethnicity

I'm sure. Yes.

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 09:52

It amazes me how two posters have dominated and made this thread about themselves and some weird obsession with Tory bashing to a bunch of women they don’t know and haven’t a clue how they voted. You don’t have to be a Tory party member to want a tougher stance and justice for the women and girls who were victims of these grooming gangs. It also doesn’t mean you’re ignoring all the other horrific child abuse and pedophile rings that exist.

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 09:56

@Jonei thanks that thread is interesting

L3ThirtySeven · 04/04/2023 09:58

Whaeanui · 04/04/2023 09:52

It amazes me how two posters have dominated and made this thread about themselves and some weird obsession with Tory bashing to a bunch of women they don’t know and haven’t a clue how they voted. You don’t have to be a Tory party member to want a tougher stance and justice for the women and girls who were victims of these grooming gangs. It also doesn’t mean you’re ignoring all the other horrific child abuse and pedophile rings that exist.

I completely agree. I’ve never voted Tory in my life, but these posters seem to have an obsessive hatred for the entire party and so apparently no Tory can ever do anything right/good for women and girls.

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