Page 12 | Keir Starmer - Trans Rights Can't Override Women's Rights

chevvyroo · 2023-04-01T17:42:01+00:00

In The Times Seems like he's done a strategic U turn. I bet at least he's glad he can stop dodging the "what is a woman?" question. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6841074a-d0a9-11ed-85a8-caaa67d15364?shareToken=2360ce9b239c4fae805bc8364adaea73

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 12:59

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 12:54

it's always what women do that's the problem innit? funny that

Women are not above being scolded by the ones they harm with their greed, selfishness, irrational luxury beliefs.

They leave the most vulnerable to suffer and we are not allowed to complain?

Are you the type that trolls Henrietta on Twitter because she doesn't want an AGP to wash her fanny?

How dare vulnerable women like her or me call out the equalivilant of abusive enabling state mothers who are no different to an abuse enabling mother in the home, eh?

I predicted to my children my posts would bring narc rage, always does when you speak the truth.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 13:04

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 12:59

Women are not above being scolded by the ones they harm with their greed, selfishness, irrational luxury beliefs.

They leave the most vulnerable to suffer and we are not allowed to complain?

Are you the type that trolls Henrietta on Twitter because she doesn't want an AGP to wash her fanny?

How dare vulnerable women like her or me call out the equalivilant of abusive enabling state mothers who are no different to an abuse enabling mother in the home, eh?

I predicted to my children my posts would bring narc rage, always does when you speak the truth.

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you're scolding all women?

right you are

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 13:05

(I'm not convinced I'm the one showing narcissistic tendencies, but you carry on)

ResisterRex · 03/04/2023 13:06

What the fuck has happened to this thread?!

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 13:07

hands Resister a tin foil hat

it seems to be the head wear du jour in the thread at the moment

I'm hoping it will pass

PronounssheRa · 03/04/2023 13:09

ResisterRex · 03/04/2023 13:06

What the fuck has happened to this thread?!

🤯

ResisterRex · 03/04/2023 13:09

Thanks Bernard. Have a cuppa

hamstersarse · 03/04/2023 13:10

And I truly believe the vast majority of female voters will give him the benefit of the doubt.

It is a dangerous tactic on his behalf. This sort of issue can truly make an election a single issue voting strategy for many people. I think it is a huge gamble to think that 51% of the population will just 'give him the benefit of the doubt' on this issue.

SinnerBoy · 03/04/2023 13:15

LidlChocolate · Today 12:59

Bernie was employing the tactic known as "Grim Irony."

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 14:28

Brain blow by a woman speaking, by a domesticated zombie, uneducated, who doesn't matter? Wrong think, the wrong world view, the wrong conclusions, a Karen, A Gammon, a bigot, a stupid idiot who votes wrong, heard it all before.

Only women with the correct language and ideas can speak!?

That's my world view, they are my opinions, I am allowed to change them, and likely will again in life, at this time now that is where I stand and I am not voting for or supporting crappie isologies I don't agree with, that harm me and vulnerable people.

I don't care about sacred castes, even if they ate elite grad women with irrational luxury beliefs, they aren't above criticism.

Don't say anything, you don't want the neighbours to know or... that's what the state 'Mother' does as she pimps out her patients via Annexe B, no difference to the enabling mother that has a violent man in the home and as long as he is hitting the children not her she can tolerate staying, she won't leave as she doesn't want to lose her home, status and income. A pair of peas in a pod.

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 14:40

My children are adults.

If they were being taught by someone at school how to mastrubate, I would be raging.

There ard a lot if angry people around.

As I say my children aren't in school these enablers and abusers who are abusing the nations children and Mr Gaslighting Starmer pretending nobody is thinking or taking about it.

And Teachers and NHS enablers pimpimg out patients and student's acting like DARVO victims, crack on we see it.

I know for a fact that a lot of ex forces men are raging about it and planning something for the summer, so good luck Keir trying to sweep this under the rug.

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 14:50

I have seen one in particular on YouTube training people, he went into detail online showing people various tactics he learned from being in the army for them to go gurella tactics over a few issues and this was one. I watched for another reason and tuned in to him teaching tactics I was agog.

All these working class men were talking about it despite what Keir says, all very well informed and angry about this issue.

Good luck to the woke this summer.

Puffinpanic · 03/04/2023 15:17

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 08:22

https://mobile.twitter.com/rosey_nz/status/1642753873151680514/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1642753873151680514&currentTweetUser=rosey_nz
Hipkins the New Zealand PM was asked about shorty, ancient, backwards, trying to be diwn with the kids- Starmers definition and he was at first lost for words and secondly from his response seems to view Starmer as a pervy bigoted TERF 😆

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I’m sorry, but that just gave me the rage. When asked ‘what is a woman’ he stumbles that he wasn’t expecting that question, and it’s left field’, but his governing party, that he leads, has implemented policies over-riding sex, and hence what a woman is, so how dare he not have even thought of this? The fucker. Women, not even fucking worth thinking about when implementing laws and policies that directly affect us as women. How dare he? How dare he claim he is not a fucking misogynist!

Alltheprettyseahorses · 03/04/2023 15:37

Colour me shocked, he's a liar and a fool. I wonder what all those who pleaded with us to vote Labour, it'll all be sorted, are thinking now? Are they embarrassed? Saying that, the new round of shills are on social media listing all the things more important than women. We are just an exasperation after all. Which is so damned dismissive and patronising, half the people he would be accountable to are an exasperation, we should probably shut up, grovel to his proclamations and do as we're told. We just don't count in Starmer's world - support animals, not people.

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 16:17

Alltheprettyseahorses · 03/04/2023 15:37

Colour me shocked, he's a liar and a fool. I wonder what all those who pleaded with us to vote Labour, it'll all be sorted, are thinking now? Are they embarrassed? Saying that, the new round of shills are on social media listing all the things more important than women. We are just an exasperation after all. Which is so damned dismissive and patronising, half the people he would be accountable to are an exasperation, we should probably shut up, grovel to his proclamations and do as we're told. We just don't count in Starmer's world - support animals, not people.

Support animals, breeding babies ready for the indoctrination centres to pimp out the children to staff and perverted teen boys.

Support animals to look after AGP staff and patients when coming out of a general anesthetic, first thought where am I, secons thoughthave NHS staff pimped me out, third thought how the heck can I get myself well quick to avoid AGPs access.

Support animals to shut the fuck up.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 16:28

I know for a fact that a lot of ex forces men are raging about it and planning something for the summer, so good luck Keir trying to sweep this under the rug.

this sounds like men planning violence

just for the hard of thinking, that would be a bad thing

this thread has taken quite the surreal turn

LidlChocolate · 03/04/2023 16:36

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 03/04/2023 16:28

I know for a fact that a lot of ex forces men are raging about it and planning something for the summer, so good luck Keir trying to sweep this under the rug.

this sounds like men planning violence

just for the hard of thinking, that would be a bad thing

this thread has taken quite the surreal turn

He has said in passing in the past that a serving police officer was in touch and he knew months ahead about Animal rebellion attacks on dairy last year and suggested people get in some dry milk and cheese ahead of it all.

He said again that a serving police officer was in touch and named some dates this summer where something big will happen.

He would randomly laugh about trans issues over the years.

I don't know details other than he was showing people certain things and the channel has taken a recent turn.

I don't get involved with women meetings and I most certainly won't with these men.

If Keir thinks nobody is interested he is a liar or he is being manipulated by his party.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 03/04/2023 17:04

Alltheprettyseahorses · 03/04/2023 15:37

Colour me shocked, he's a liar and a fool. I wonder what all those who pleaded with us to vote Labour, it'll all be sorted, are thinking now? Are they embarrassed? Saying that, the new round of shills are on social media listing all the things more important than women. We are just an exasperation after all. Which is so damned dismissive and patronising, half the people he would be accountable to are an exasperation, we should probably shut up, grovel to his proclamations and do as we're told. We just don't count in Starmer's world - support animals, not people.

That's it, I've been trying to think what's happening and you've nailed it

All these things are apparently more important than women.

Its basically the same old tripe
After the revolution babe we will look at your issues, now off you pop and make the tea,there's a dear, oh and stuff some envelopes.

Never mind that this is imo the single most important thing in womens life.
Yet still we get shoved aside, "both sides" "take the heat out of the situation " but green issues, but children hungry, but brexshit, but but but, always a but.

No there is no time for us to dilly dally around, we are in the process of losing our words, being counted, mattering even an iota. If we dont stop this ship, we may as well all jumped overboard, nothing will ever be normal again, not in our lifetimes. And an awful lot of women will just leave public life, in fact I'll go as far as to say all women will leave public life, eventually.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/04/2023 18:07

Re: barristers taking on whatever job they are given, regardless of their belief in the truth behind what they must prosecute or defend.

It's what they do. It's ingrained. Note that Starmer was a criminal defence barrister primarily

That is very interesting to know.

maltravers · 04/04/2023 00:32

The tories are making low key GC moves, but not seeking to make political capital. Why? They are clearly going to blow this matter up in the lead up to the next GE - same old Labour with their cranky, ludicrous and downright dangerous student politics will be the theme. Starmer’s an idiot IMO not to clear it up now.

SquirrelsAreStinky · 04/04/2023 06:20

maltravers · 04/04/2023 00:32

The tories are making low key GC moves, but not seeking to make political capital. Why? They are clearly going to blow this matter up in the lead up to the next GE - same old Labour with their cranky, ludicrous and downright dangerous student politics will be the theme. Starmer’s an idiot IMO not to clear it up now.

I agree with this.

I think Starmer is hoping that some vague, waffly statements will reassure women that he really does have us covered.

Until I hear him say that trans identifying men will not be allowed into women's hospitals, bathrooms, changing rooms, prisons etc, I won't change my view.

I've said before, I think Starmer knows exactly what a woman is. He's not stupid. He's just been toeing the TRA line up until now because he's trying to keep all the important people happy. And it's blatantly obvious that most politicians don't consider women to be one of those important groups.

I think Starmer is desperate to outperform Corbyn and he's trying to reach all factions of the party, and bring back lost voters. He saw the GRA as a vote-winner but recent events in Scotland mean that he needs a rethink.

In fairness, I don't care if Stamer backpedals and does a U-turn. I'm very happy for a politician to admit they got it wrong, and to change their policies. Far better than doggedly sticking with something that isn't right. The problem is that I don't think Starmer is doing a complete u-turn just yet. I think he's put the reversing light on but hasn't yet decided whether to move or not.

I will watch with interest - and I agree with a PP that the Tories will capitalise on this issue on the lead up to the election. I don't Starmer will fully back down because the rest of the party - or at least the majority of it - will want to press on with the GRA. I still think Labour is probably a lost cause. As are the Lib Dems and Greens.

Needmoresleep · 04/04/2023 07:35

maltravers · 04/04/2023 00:32

The tories are making low key GC moves, but not seeking to make political capital. Why? They are clearly going to blow this matter up in the lead up to the next GE - same old Labour with their cranky, ludicrous and downright dangerous student politics will be the theme. Starmer’s an idiot IMO not to clear it up now.

Believing that sex is binary should not be a party political issue. Really not. It is "water is wet" science.

As I continue canvassing around the ward I am standing in, no one raises gender. There are plenty of local irritants: crime, roads that have been closed, plans for a park, potholes. People talk about not liking Boris, but Keir has not gained as a result and people are keeping an open mind on Rishi. There is surprisingly little about national policies, perhaps because Labour dont seem to be promoting attractive alternatives. Most people seem to be genuinely undecided.

When people challenge me on why I am standing as a Conservative, I explain my frustration with politics and my belief that ordinary people should get more involved. (I also say I would make a good ward Councillor as my background means I can support people when trying to get the system to work - local Council relies too heavily on people's ability to use the Internet.) I then say I could not be Labour as Keir does not know what a woman is. Everyone, but everyone, is aware, and men particularly will rant about how ridiculous it is whilst there is a clear sisterhood with older women.

(In fairness we are canvassing in areas where there is a good proportion of Conservative voters, though a fair number of younger renters, few of whom plan to vote. Oddly I am getting a higher proportion of people who say they will vote Tory from those not born in the UK. Perhaps people from more conservative cultures who are thriving here have even less sympathy for a man who does not know what a woman is.)

It won't be an election issue. It is already damaging Labour's credibility. The idea that after 13 years so many people are saying that they are undecided, but willing to consider voting Conservative, suggests that Labour have missed the catch.

SpidersAreShitheads · 04/04/2023 08:29

Needmoresleep · 04/04/2023 07:35

Believing that sex is binary should not be a party political issue. Really not. It is "water is wet" science.

As I continue canvassing around the ward I am standing in, no one raises gender. There are plenty of local irritants: crime, roads that have been closed, plans for a park, potholes. People talk about not liking Boris, but Keir has not gained as a result and people are keeping an open mind on Rishi. There is surprisingly little about national policies, perhaps because Labour dont seem to be promoting attractive alternatives. Most people seem to be genuinely undecided.

When people challenge me on why I am standing as a Conservative, I explain my frustration with politics and my belief that ordinary people should get more involved. (I also say I would make a good ward Councillor as my background means I can support people when trying to get the system to work - local Council relies too heavily on people's ability to use the Internet.) I then say I could not be Labour as Keir does not know what a woman is. Everyone, but everyone, is aware, and men particularly will rant about how ridiculous it is whilst there is a clear sisterhood with older women.

(In fairness we are canvassing in areas where there is a good proportion of Conservative voters, though a fair number of younger renters, few of whom plan to vote. Oddly I am getting a higher proportion of people who say they will vote Tory from those not born in the UK. Perhaps people from more conservative cultures who are thriving here have even less sympathy for a man who does not know what a woman is.)

It won't be an election issue. It is already damaging Labour's credibility. The idea that after 13 years so many people are saying that they are undecided, but willing to consider voting Conservative, suggests that Labour have missed the catch.

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Very interesting.

The other day a Lib Dem canvasser knocked. I said I would t be able to vote for them as I didn’t want to provide any validation of their Westminster policies.

The (male) canvasser asked for more details so I explained the issues around Lib Dem’s, women’s rights and safety. He was completely taken aback - had never heard of the issues and was oblivious to Lib Dem’s stance.

He tried to suggest I should still support them locally as women’s rights is “a Westminster issue”. I said I would’ve be able to do that as I wasn’t comfortable supporting a party in any way that was willing to sacrifice women, and that local wins could be construed as support for their wider policies.

He promised to convey my reasoning back to HQ but I suspect I’ll be dismissed as a hysterical, right wing voter (I’m normally Labour).

The fact that this wasn’t even on their radar says enough for me.

Needmoresleep · 04/04/2023 08:45

SpidersAreShitheads · 04/04/2023 08:29

Very interesting.

The other day a Lib Dem canvasser knocked. I said I would t be able to vote for them as I didn’t want to provide any validation of their Westminster policies.

The (male) canvasser asked for more details so I explained the issues around Lib Dem’s, women’s rights and safety. He was completely taken aback - had never heard of the issues and was oblivious to Lib Dem’s stance.

He tried to suggest I should still support them locally as women’s rights is “a Westminster issue”. I said I would’ve be able to do that as I wasn’t comfortable supporting a party in any way that was willing to sacrifice women, and that local wins could be construed as support for their wider policies.

He promised to convey my reasoning back to HQ but I suspect I’ll be dismissed as a hysterical, right wing voter (I’m normally Labour).

The fact that this wasn’t even on their radar says enough for me.

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I would agree. It is a local issue as well.

The Council I am wanting to be elected to, and mainly because I think there is a role for good ward councillors who are responsive to local needs, has some weird pronoun and trans day of remembrance stuff. One of my favourite (and female) colleagues thought the pronoun stuff was silly. As far as I can tell it was one of two activists who pushed it through. Presumably others thought these were easy concessions to make, perhaps in return for support on major policies.

I am in touch with Conservatives for Women (brilliant group) who are keen to broaden understanding of the issue amongst Councillors. They already have about half of Tory MPs signed up.

Its proving an interesting experience. Politics, whatever the party, seems to be a boys club. Just different boys.

Floisme · 04/04/2023 08:57

I remember Decca Aitkenhead interviewing Angela Rayner for the Times a few weeks ago. There was a thread about the article and what struck me the most was that, when Aitkenhead asked Rayner about self ID, she seemed genuinely surprised. It was around the time when Isla Blair was grabbing the headlines and (I think) just before Sturgeon resigned, and yet, the question blindsided Rayner.

I know a lot of posters don't rate Rayner but I don't think this was just down to her, I think it showed that her advisers hadn't even thought to brief her that it was bound to come up. I think that tells you a lot about how savvy and aware Labour are (not). Starmer, I think, has possibly woken up - not out of any principle but because he wants to win - but not the party as a whole.