They is suing the U.K. government to become neither male nor female after op to create cavity...

[aweegc]

I don't want to link to the article (DM) or write this person's name as I'm sure they're keeping an eye everywhere.

Basically there's a case reported in the U.K. family courts with someone who kept male genitalia and had surgery to create a "fully functioning" cavity. Person wants to legally be recognised as non binary because they feel a bit male and a bit female.

I'd like to know if this person can define what "woman feelings" are and how they're different from "man feelings". I'd also like to be reassured that this person isn't bringing a transphobic case by reducing identity to genitals.

And I'd like to know why this even ended up in court in the first place. If I feel a little bit cat-like and get one surgically altered to be like a fully functioning cat ear, or get my fingers amputated on one hand to make it like a "fully functioning" paw, can I be legally recognised by my new semi-feline gender?

@Zeugma

I'm kind of the opposite. I don't really mind people wanting body modification even if the driver is a sexual fetish. I can totally get that having, or being with, someone with two sets of genitals is an appealing erotic fantasy, and if this could be divorced from social gender politics my only reason for caution would be that what today's surgery can practically deliver falls far short of the fantasy. (I'm not so sure about no genitals but I wouldn't stop them doing it if it were a personal choice).

My objection is when the desire for these voluntary modifications gets tangled up with the truth of whether or not one is a man or a woman, or to impose an adult view of sexuality onto childhood, and this gets used to justify eroding the social and legal boundaries that protect women and children from aggressive male sexuality.

@FlirtsWithRhinos one person can pursue their private goal for wanting this, assuming it’s harmless. As is often (sort of) said….call yourself what you like, dress how you like, make cavities in yourself how you like - and so on. But now the judge in this case is quoted as saying:

If Castellucci won their case, it would spark changes for “reams and reams” of legislation in a “massive” shake-up of UK policies.…legislation across the board, from marriage certification to birth and GRCs, would have to be modified if a judicial review of Castellucci's case led to changes in gender recognition.
“From the appellant’s point of view, the offence and bother of having to declare yourself a gender you have never been is just intolerable... it must have been. But if they succeed, the changes that will have to be made will be absolutely massive.”

We're talking about ONE person - are they currently even resident in this country? - who wants to effect a change in our laws which would affect us all. So it’s not really just body modification, or nullification, or whatever. It’s the imposing of this on ALL of us. When others don’t get a say in how they feel about it.

@Zeugma 100% agree that the demand to have their body modification and/or personal identity enshrined as a new legal sex is a ridiculous and dangerous overreach, and that it's that rather than the existence of or desire for the surgery itself that is the most important aspect.

Are they really wasting scarce medical resources on unneeded surgeries for confused people?

I read that article. It will be interesting to see what happens. I think they are suing the Government basically as the transgender laws we have only deal with creating the fiction of being male or the fiction of being female or being reassigned as the gender of one or the other.

I read that article. It will be interesting to see what happens. I think they are suing the Government basically as the transgender laws we have only deal with creating the fiction of being male or the fiction of being female or being reassigned as the gender of one or the other.

Unfortunately, I think this will eventually happen. As I've said before on here, once you've accepted the validity of a ladder of absurdity and started to climb it, how can you possibly claim any superiority of belief over somebody else who is a few rungs above you on the same ladder?

I've also mentioned the clip (on YouTube) where Jane Fae is arguing against Emile Ratelband about how ridiculous, offensive and plain misguided he is being by wanting his transage status to be legally recognised; as one comment summed it up, 'crazy person tells another crazy person that he is not allowed to be crazy'.

This was definitely a line-in-the-sand moment that was fully ignored when it mattered most, so now who knows where the tide will eventually carry us all?

Considering the vast variety of body modifications that people make, from the mundane to the extreme: tattoos everywhere that there's skin; holes in ears, noses, belly buttons, toes, nipples, even in genitals - and virtually none of those people are seeing it as anything more than an expression of their own social identity and/or bodily integrity, much less expecting the law to recognise it or even care - so why on earth should having your body modified to make a hole in your perineum behind your standard male genitals, if that's your personal proclivity, be any different?

Genitals are a result of your male or female sex; they are not the cause of it - and thus it is impossible to be able to cosmetically alter/add to/remove them and magically change your sex.

I can believe that some American surgeons would. The aftercare would be a constant source of ongoing revenue.

I can't believe a surgeon would commit this atrocity

I was so gobsmacked by the idea of nullification that I (unwisely) googled it. Absolutely the first thing that came up was multiple US surgical practices offering the procedure - from the 'smooth look' to all sorts of variations thereof. Peddled by beaming practitioners desperate to rake in the $$$.

It's a pity this 'fully-functioning hole' doesn't come equipped with what many owners of the genuine thing have to endure: hellish, painfully and very inconvenient monthly periods. They wouldn't know what had hit them, and would be begging for reversal surgery within weeks!

It's also a pity for some of them that the 'fully-functioning noise hole' just underneath their nose doesn't come equipped with all the standard connections to a 'fully functioning brain'.

I just looked up nullification surgery too and was equally shocked. That Mao Sugiyama bloke really did not sound fit to be left to freely roam around society.

I presume that, for most of them, it's an extreme sexual fetish - (mostly) men having everything chopped off and (a minority of) women choosing to be completely sewn up; but surely, even if you really want to choose to do without any sexual function of your genital area ever again, you can't be at all mentally well if you don't stop to think about how you're going to urinate or menstruate if you've so 'modified' the area that you've also prevented any normal mundane, non-sexual functions?

I’ll say they would my periods were hell on earth for the first six years pill stopped that. Then the menopause, 10 month crawling with pain with the coil. So yes any men want that they can have with pleasure.

"Fully functioning" what BS! It's a surgically created cavity, not self cleaning and with no natural function , a "frankenhole". How disgusting

He can now actually screw himself

So he has given himself the opportunity to go and fuck him self. Maybe he should do that.