Page 39 | What if you're all wrong about KJK? Even her own security have serious concerns

andarounditgoesagain · 2023-03-20T09:54:32+00:00

Her own security are saying she's courting trouble for views, knowingly putting them in danger, that she has no human connection with people but her fans don't notice as they hero-worship her and see what they want to see, and that the end game is she's after becoming a talking head in the US, and that SFW women are just pawns she's using to get there. https://twitter.com/Fair_Maiden1/status/1637529465126285312 She seems more and more like a Katie Hopkins type who's leeching off our movement. I used to love her, before I get accused of jealousy. I still love the approach of platforming women who don't usually get a chance to be heard. But actual nazis are now turning up at women's rights events - precisely because KJK refused to denounce them and has been courting the far right for ages. It's not a coincidence. What does she have to do before women realise she's using us? At what point do women accept KJK is toxic and damaging our movement? If those closest to her have serious concerns - shouldn't you?

raspberrywine · 21/03/2023 11:34

ScrollingLeaves · 21/03/2023 11:18

Datun · Today 09:23
The fact that there are all these women newly interested in participating in the discourse scares the shit out of them.

That's an interesting take, and I've heard it elsewhere. That 'feminism' is getting away from those who want to control it.

There's a definite feeling of being restricted. And if you don't allow yourself to be restricted then you can fuck off. And be criticised for it into the bargain. Especially if you make a fuss.

The trans issue has led to a lot of women acquiring 'late onset feminism'.

Not raised on feminist, academic books or philosophy or indeed, for many, any strong politics at all.

But with the onslaught of genderism, you can't miss the wholesale erasure of women. It's bound to attract women across the board. Every class, every educational standard, and every political viewpoint, or none.

Surely, it would be much smarter, more effective, and in the long run absolutely brilliant, to harness the fury of these women instead of alienating them.

I too am one of the type you are describing. It is my own version as well.

Yes. Another one here who has acquired late onset feminism. Bloody proud of it too. Active online and in real life. Go me. Mumsnet, Twitter, JKR and KJK all contributed my journey.

Helleofabore · 21/03/2023 11:35

By the way, has there been any better evidence than the misrepresentations, the bad faith takes (I mean just look at that spliced transcript posted yesterday to highlight something the poster than refused to discuss), screen shots and wikipedia grabs?

Has anyone got anything else? Because surely there is actually some better formulated evidence out there? No?

To flip it around, has anyone found the posts by the OP compelling? And this is a genuine question, why do you find it compelling? I am interested in finding out how this evidence is perceived by others who have little background knowledge of the topic.

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2023 11:36

I absolutely cannot stand bully tactics and calling for denouncements. That’s why threads like this one get right on my tits.

Just do your own thing and leave KJK to hers.

And stop referring to Mumsnetters as ‘you lot’.

Yes, hear hear to all of this.

mirax · 21/03/2023 11:36

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 20/03/2023 21:56

Because it would entail saying that all little girls are worth the same and entitled to the same human rights.

This brand of racist applies cultural relativism to the max, to the extent that they don't think brown girls are capable of suffering to the same level as white girls. They think it's natural for girls of other races to be treated badly, in the way I think it's natural for birds to drink from puddles.

Show quote history

Absolutely. It is the racism of low expectations and a particular progressive failing.

Datun · 21/03/2023 11:41

So these women who claim to uphold the pure feminism, have managed to alienate all those who have contracted late onset feminism and women who have always been feminist to their fingertips.

On the feminist section of a board largely dominated by women.

That's no mean feat!

DialSquare · 21/03/2023 11:43

Datun · 21/03/2023 11:41

So these women who claim to uphold the pure feminism, have managed to alienate all those who have contracted late onset feminism and women who have always been feminist to their fingertips.

On the feminist section of a board largely dominated by women.

That's no mean feat!

And then still have the cheek to call it "our movement"

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2023 11:45

Datun · 21/03/2023 11:41

So these women who claim to uphold the pure feminism, have managed to alienate all those who have contracted late onset feminism and women who have always been feminist to their fingertips.

On the feminist section of a board largely dominated by women.

That's no mean feat!

Yes, it's actually almost admirable, really.

MarshaBradyo · 21/03/2023 11:47

Pixiedust1234 · 21/03/2023 11:16

You know whats funny? I don't know KJK, I don't read her posts, I don't follow her, she is a no one to me. However....

All these threads made by KJK haters are bringing her, and her aims, into my sight. They are also bringing me their hatred and utter contempt of women. I only post on these threads because they tell me what to think and what to say. Just fuck off with that. Talk to me, explain to me (even in words of one syllable) but don't you dare tell me what I can and cannot do, think, or feel.

I don’t follow her either.

I don’t think all the posters who keep starting these threads or keep them going with criticism realise what an own goal that is.

I doubt I’d know of her without it

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/03/2023 11:50

suggestions picked up the word annihilate from that entire speech!! You're kidding.

I honestly did not know what they were talking about. I thought it was them skimming over the fetishists and AGP part.

suggestionsplease1 haha!! You are <snort>, honestly try to convince the women hear that KJK wants to kill other women??

For fuck's sake, mate. Get a fucking grip.

This construction made on the wording of this video is common among the "f TRFs" anime avatars as "proof" KJK is calling for violence. How embarrassing for Suggestions* that she can't prop up her view better than taking a word on a video out of context in bad faith, like they do.

Original poster

andarounditgoesagain · 21/03/2023 11:52

Datun · 21/03/2023 11:41

So these women who claim to uphold the pure feminism, have managed to alienate all those who have contracted late onset feminism and women who have always been feminist to their fingertips.

On the feminist section of a board largely dominated by women.

That's no mean feat!

Wow, there's some projection, and twisting of the narrative going on here.

Not working with the far right and racists is a pretty standard for any women's group. The only reason we're even having this discussion is because KJK has been targeting the far right for ages and her followers don't want to see it.

This is the far right we're talking about. Not your local Tory MP or the brilliant Conservatives for Women.

We're talking about racists, white supremacists, extremist Trump supporters, the American religious right who have been responsible for countless anti-woman policies and neo nazis. That's a pretty low bar.

But you want to frame this as a purity spiral.

That's not engaging in good faith, it's twisting the narrative.

OP posts:

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2023 11:53

Wow, there's some projection, and twisting of the narrative going on here.

No shit.

beastlyslumber · 21/03/2023 11:55

I thought you'd flounced @andarounditgoesagain ?

You realise you have made the same accusation of working with the far right without providing any evidence whatsoever? Is this the tactic you're told to employ by AGCL? Have you ever considered thinking for yourself?

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2023 11:55

KJK has been targeting the far right for ages

beastlyslumber · 21/03/2023 11:57

KJK has been targeting the far right for ages

ArabellaScott · 21/03/2023 11:59

KJK has been targeting the far right for ages

lechiffre55 · 21/03/2023 12:00

But you want to frame this as
projection
Tell me what the difference between someone who's right of centre and someone who is far right? It seems for a certain element anyone who doesn't comply is far-right, racists, white supremacists, extremist Trump supporters. The trouble with language is when you abuse it so much no one knows what you mean any more. If say going hiking for example makes you a white supremacist, then are you complaining about people who go hiking?
https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxnqeb/us-national-parks-racist-past-white-supremacy
When everyone you disagree with is far-right, racists, white supremacists, extremist Trump supporters, it has no meaning any more.

White Nationalists Want to Reclaim Nature as a Safe Space for Racists

White supremacy groups have deep roots in the U.S. wilderness and recreation movements, going all the way back to the creation of the National Park System.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/wxnqeb/us-national-parks-racist-past-white-supremacy

Original poster

andarounditgoesagain · 21/03/2023 12:01

Helleofabore · 21/03/2023 11:29

"They are also bringing me their hatred and utter contempt of women. I only post on these threads because they tell me what to think and what to say. Just fuck off with that. Talk to me, explain to me (even in words of one syllable) but don't you dare tell me what I can and cannot do, think, or feel."

There really does seem to be group of women on MN who write with such contempt and patronising about other women on a feminist board and then claim they are victims when people react negatively.

Then come the posters who declare they cannot see that contempt and negativeness who then proceed to say how 'unwelcoming' MN has become.

When the women are responding, maybe with harsh blunt language, to the very contempt and derision that that unseeing poster simply cannot acknowledge.

Cannot and will not acknowledge because either that poster has tried something similar at one point and got negative push back or holds similar derision for the group of women reacting to the negativity. Rather than seeking then to gain an understanding of why this interaction has gone down the pan, just more shaming and derision is applied. And they honestly somehow think a positive outcome will be had from that further shaming.

All because a group of feminists simply could not allow a woman to go about doing something her own way, unconnected to them.

It's not unconnected though, that's the whole point. When I talk to my MP, to my DC's school, to TRA-sympathetic friends, the popular view that we're all right wing bigots isn't helping.

The TRAs have been saying for years that GC feminists are being paid by the far right. I used to be able to say that was bollocks. I can't now, with KJK putting flyers out with CPAC logos on them, FFS.

Women who lobby politicians say this isn't helping.

We need to win hearts and minds and KJK is alienating those who we need to win over.

There will likely be a Labour government next. How is KJK talking to white supremacists going to help us win them over? It's counterproductive.

But she doesn't care, as that's not her aim.

OP posts:

lifeturnsonadime · 21/03/2023 12:03

If we want to talk about Trump. No one is doing more for the Republican cause than Joe Biden and his sucking up to men who think they are women.

That the left can't see this is simply baffling.

Helleofabore · 21/03/2023 12:06

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/03/2023 11:50

suggestions picked up the word annihilate from that entire speech!! You're kidding.

I honestly did not know what they were talking about. I thought it was them skimming over the fetishists and AGP part.

suggestionsplease1 haha!! You are <snort>, honestly try to convince the women hear that KJK wants to kill other women??

For fuck's sake, mate. Get a fucking grip.

This construction made on the wording of this video is common among the "f TRFs" anime avatars as "proof" KJK is calling for violence. How embarrassing for Suggestions* that she can't prop up her view better than taking a word on a video out of context in bad faith, like they do.

See, I thought it would be such an obvious extreme bad take that I didn't actually quite grasp that that was the interpretation that we were meant to have.

I didn't think anyone would be that deprived of common sense.

If you have seen it before Eresh, was it the same 'clipping'? As in the same snipped transcript that is blatantly about skewing the perception towards something that a reasonable person would simply not glean from the video?

Because it was very clear once you read the wider transcript that those statements meant something else. These were not stand alone statements at all.

And I have seen other posters use that statement about 'annihilate' as well.

It was used this morning. "Telling women who disagree with her they will be annihilated? That she will win? Reminds me of Shon Faye tweeting at women ‘Enjoy your erasure’."

It never meant 'harm'. Enjoy your erasure is a statement of enjoying 'harm' to women. 'Annihilate' in this case never was a statement of 'harm', it was a hyperbolic device (again, hyperbole is very often used and probably even by the very people posting about the use of the word 'annihilate').

What the fuck do these posters think she was going to 'annihilate'? And how?

The dissonance I feel when I see these misrepresentations is so high. I feel that dissonance regardless of who I am seeing misquoted, whether it is someone I disagree with or not.

It is about honesty and truth.

Why do others not feel that dissonance when they deliberately do this?

Original poster

andarounditgoesagain · 21/03/2023 12:07

Baldieheid · 21/03/2023 10:00

What's the saying? Something like "I didn't leave the Left, the Left left me".

This whole purity shit is the biggest fucking pile of excrement I've ever seen in my life. It's hostile. It's unpleasant. It's spiteful. It's unwelcoming. It's pathetic. It's dangerous. Its authoritarian.

It's sad as fuck that grown women feel they can police others thinking and behaviour as seen on this thread.

You do you, Boo. Piss off and leave those choosing another path alone

Not wanting the far right sniffing about is hardly authoritarian! Give me strength.

OP posts:

AlisonDonut · 21/03/2023 12:07

Not working with the far right and racists is a pretty standard for any women's group.

Hadn't you heard, everyone is a racist these days. Just being born makes you racist. Also, far right women are also women. Honestly, you need to get out and touch some grass. That isn't how grown ups work.

People who can't engage with other human beings without melting down if they don't tick all the right boxes...really need therapy.

FOJN · 21/03/2023 12:08

We're talking about racists, white supremacists, extremist Trump supporters, the American religious right who have been responsible for countless anti-woman policies and neo nazis. That's a pretty low bar.

The American religious right you say....

No idea what this photo is in connection with but JB is clearly a right wing Christian fundamentalists or adjacent if follow OP's logic. I'm sure she won't give a shit because despite her exemplary left wing credentials Billy Bragg has already compared her to Nazis.

I suspect this photo was taken when she was involved in something to advance the rights of women.

And despite my left of centre politics I have good friend in Conservatives for Women, they do not appreciate tribalism within the feminist movemen and they most certainly don't think highly of AGCL so I doubt they will value your endorsement.

What if you're all wrong about KJK? Even her own security have serious concerns

Helleofabore · 21/03/2023 12:08

andarounditgoesagain · 21/03/2023 11:52

Wow, there's some projection, and twisting of the narrative going on here.

Not working with the far right and racists is a pretty standard for any women's group. The only reason we're even having this discussion is because KJK has been targeting the far right for ages and her followers don't want to see it.

This is the far right we're talking about. Not your local Tory MP or the brilliant Conservatives for Women.

We're talking about racists, white supremacists, extremist Trump supporters, the American religious right who have been responsible for countless anti-woman policies and neo nazis. That's a pretty low bar.

But you want to frame this as a purity spiral.

That's not engaging in good faith, it's twisting the narrative.

Show quote history

"This is the far right we're talking about."

Please list the 'far right' people you are accusing KJK of working with?

And you'd better also find a definition of 'far right' too please.

BordoisAgain · 21/03/2023 12:09

Funny how the TRA's are so literal when it comes to some words but not others.

For the record, the dictionary definition of annihilate also includes:

to defeat overwhelmingly : ROUT
annihilated the visitors 56–0

beastlyslumber · 21/03/2023 12:12

The TRAs have been saying for years that GC feminists are being paid by the far right. I used to be able to say that was bollocks. I can't now, with KJK putting flyers out with CPAC logos on them, FFS.

Well, lucky for you, KJK is not a GC feminist. So you can still say it's bollocks (even if you won't admit the rest of it is bollocks).