What if you're all wrong about KJK? Even her own security have serious concerns

[andarounditgoesagain]

Her own security are saying she's courting trouble for views, knowingly putting them in danger, that she has no human connection with people but her fans don't notice as they hero-worship her and see what they want to see, and that the end game is she's after becoming a talking head in the US, and that SFW women are just pawns she's using to get there.

twitter.com/Fair_Maiden1/status/1637529465126285312

She seems more and more like a Katie Hopkins type who's leeching off our movement.

I used to love her, before I get accused of jealousy. I still love the approach of platforming women who don't usually get a chance to be heard.

But actual nazis are now turning up at women's rights events - precisely because KJK refused to denounce them and has been courting the far right for ages. It's not a coincidence.

What does she have to do before women realise she's using us?
At what point do women accept KJK is toxic and damaging our movement?

If those closest to her have serious concerns - shouldn't you?

Username checks out.

It’s kind of amusing that you came to the MumsNet FWR board to tell women we're organising wrong. Just in case I need another laugh later on, I’ve filed the above comments under “how to teach my grandmother to suck eggs”.

If you are worried about guilt by association, perhaps it’s not great for whatever cause you’re representing for you to go around linking to accounts plastered with ISTANDWITHRUSSIA hashtags. Mass rape is not generally considered very feminist; isn't Putin also toxic and damaging to women's rights?

What's the saying? Something like "I didn't leave the Left, the Left left me".

This whole purity shit is the biggest fucking pile of excrement I've ever seen in my life. It's hostile. It's unpleasant. It's spiteful. It's unwelcoming. It's pathetic. It's dangerous. Its authoritarian.

It's sad as fuck that grown women feel they can police others thinking and behaviour as seen on this thread.

You do you, Boo. Piss off and leave those choosing another path alone

Don't be ridiculous. Australia is well known for its complete lack of racism, the empowerment of its indigenous community, it has never had any far right politicians or policies and has definitely NEVER EVER held asylum seekers in camps. It is known.

KJK brought all these things over with her in her handbag WHICH YOU PAID FOR.

Speaking of fancy hotels.

https://twitter.com/DrFletchington/status/1637507151198404608/video/1

Thank you for this EndlessTea:
"The left has all these goodies like blind loyalty, mindless parroting, ideology over pragmatism, ritual shaming and ostracism which work a treat. It’s like the political version of a perpetual motion machine"

All perfectly exemplified by the OP with a dose of forced teaming.

'I’m going to say out loud what we’re not supposed to say:

The only group that has benefited from Nazis invading a Let Women Speak event are Trans Activists, who are using it as a tool to stop women being heard.

If Nazis are benefitting your movement, you’re in a bad movement.'

https://twitter.com/salltweets/status/1637565705188155393

This what happened

@Ourladycheesusedatum 💋

Jeebuz. This thread was on page 14 yesterday, today it's 38 and going for the 1K cutoff. Did I miss anything in the 24 pages?

That's me and yep. Spot on.

And coming from outside of it all (feminist academia/politics) and reading these threads actually gives a very clean eye on what's happening here I think; through a simple human behaviour lens (group identity and exclusion, boundary drawing leading to backlash, intellectual superiority, projection, blindpots and bias etc).

Even though I might not fully grasp all of the arguments and history, my responses to what is happening in the world right now for women are instinctive and plain old human, as are my responses to tribalism/group think.

I chose when quite young to steer clear of politics as it all seemed so tribal, with these 'lumps of ideas' you had to agree on as a package. It seems more than ever like this these days- but maybe that's just me seeing it more because I am actually engaging with it more now.

For me, and other women like me, that beyond political or group affiliation approach is undoubtedly the appeal of LWS. It may be imperfect, but it's real and direct. The backlashes to it really bring the issues to the forefront!

I really appreciate demi-colon's and Datun's posts. Very clarifying.

I don't have a problem with private education (three step-grand-daughters are in private education on scholarships). I don't care if KJK had a private education in Hong Kong paid for by grandparents (other set, presumably, if it happened?), it is irrelevant.

Hmm...Nope. Lots of use of the gif feature though.

Has anyone made the transsexual truscum vs TRA comparison yet?

There are similar divisions on the other side.

It's not so much whether it was acceptable or not, it was used to discredit KJK's activist credentials. In a 'what the fuck does she know, she lives in a bubble of wealth', sort of way.

and it was a total lie anyway.

Same sort of thing you see from TRAs that buying her T-shirts and her campaigning in Australia, is women 'funding her holidays'.

Doesn't this assume the gatekeepers are basically right in their views ad analysis, and all these foolish newcomer women just need better re-educating? That seems to play right into their thinking.

I think feminism has actually been really weakened over the years because so many female voices and their experiences were shut out. They didn't have to wrestle with the experiences of those women, nor did they need to treat ideological challenges from them seriously - they could dismiss them as untutored, handmaidens, victims of the patriarchy, in need of re-education. Which means they didn't have to develop robust arguments, they could brush aside inconvenient facts and topics, or imagine all sensible women felt the same about their priorities for women.

Seriously robust arguments are formed in response to serious opposition by people also looking for the truth. When you demonize them as right wing or handmaidens you end up with sloppy thinking.

Doesn't this assume the gatekeepers are basically right in their views ad analysis, and all these foolish newcomer women just need better re-educating? That seems to play right into their thinking.

I don't know if they're right or not. I do know that understanding sexism and misogyny is a learning curve.

The things that one would, previously, find perfectly acceptable start to look offensive and sexist, as you refine the framework through which you view them.

You know whats funny? I don't know KJK, I don't read her posts, I don't follow her, she is a no one to me. However....

All these threads made by KJK haters are bringing her, and her aims, into my sight. They are also bringing me their hatred and utter contempt of women. I only post on these threads because they tell me what to think and what to say. Just fuck off with that. Talk to me, explain to me (even in words of one syllable) but don't you dare tell me what I can and cannot do, think, or feel.

Datun · Today 09:23
The fact that there are all these women newly interested in participating in the discourse scares the shit out of them.

That's an interesting take, and I've heard it elsewhere. That 'feminism' is getting away from those who want to control it.

There's a definite feeling of being restricted. And if you don't allow yourself to be restricted then you can fuck off. And be criticised for it into the bargain. Especially if you make a fuss.

The trans issue has led to a lot of women acquiring 'late onset feminism'.

Not raised on feminist, academic books or philosophy or indeed, for many, any strong politics at all.

But with the onslaught of genderism, you can't miss the wholesale erasure of women. It's bound to attract women across the board. Every class, every educational standard, and every political viewpoint, or none.

Surely, it would be much smarter, more effective, and in the long run absolutely brilliant, to harness the fury of these women instead of alienating them.

I too am one of the type you are describing. It is my own version as well.

"Same sort of thing you see from TRAs that buying her T-shirts and her campaigning in Australia, is women 'funding her holidays'."

The hatred and deep unhappiness someone must feel to say that kind of thing is very telling. Is it envy? Is it a depth of feeling like you have no power?

It is a sign that women are buying merchandise that they see value in and that they wish to buy is devalued so much by people who seem to have a personal and deep seated grudge against the person selling as much as the person buying.

How is it feminist to control where women spend their earnings?

Likewise! Pissed off at the assumption by the OP that 'you all' (FWR posters) have the same view on this.

Well, I've learned from this thread that AGCL are pretty bloody obnoxious.

I don't agree with everything KJK has to say, either. But I can see the value in what she's doing, and I'm not sick with envy of her success.

Also, @DemiColon is right on the money, sadly, about a lot of the modern Left

Yes, it's so odd. These are bloody T-shirts, they're not gold watches.

They've all got statements on backing up her campaigns. As she says, Be the Billboard.

The brand awareness is huge.

She's actually managed to 'culturally trademark' dictionary definitions!

It's fun, cheap and effective. Why wouldn't she sell them? And why the hell wouldn't women buy them? It's better than a Freemasons handshake when you happen see one in the supermarket aisle.

And me.

"They are also bringing me their hatred and utter contempt of women. I only post on these threads because they tell me what to think and what to say. Just fuck off with that. Talk to me, explain to me (even in words of one syllable) but don't you dare tell me what I can and cannot do, think, or feel."

There really does seem to be group of women on MN who write with such contempt and patronising about other women on a feminist board and then claim they are victims when people react negatively.

Then come the posters who declare they cannot see that contempt and negativeness who then proceed to say how 'unwelcoming' MN has become.

When the women are responding, maybe with harsh blunt language, to the very contempt and derision that that unseeing poster simply cannot acknowledge.

Cannot and will not acknowledge because either that poster has tried something similar at one point and got negative push back or holds similar derision for the group of women reacting to the negativity. Rather than seeking then to gain an understanding of why this interaction has gone down the pan, just more shaming and derision is applied. And they honestly somehow think a positive outcome will be had from that further shaming.

All because a group of feminists simply could not allow a woman to go about doing something her own way, unconnected to them.

This. Great post.