Women's rights general conversations - Thread 4

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 3.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

I saw a guy on Twitter, and I sort of skirted over it so no copy and paste I'm afraid, who <s>correctly</s> thought, that all women who have issues with transwomen have that issue because we are ugly. I mean, seriously, that man is a genius. If only we weren't ugly we'd happily accept any and all men who enjoy cosplay.

We have a duty to have bodies and faces the shape and size that men enjoy looking at, and to adorn those bodies according to men's tastes. We should be very grateful to men who demonstrate that those ideals are.

If we insist on being lumpy and wearing comfortable clothes there is clearly something wrong with us - no wonder we're wrong about everything. As for wasting our time on books and cats and chatting with other women when we could be attending to men . . .

Some discussions that shed light on why I'm politically homeless. The first thread has a link to a particularly batshit LibDem article, which looks like something our particularly Fervent Righteous ex-friends from the Old Place could have come up with. The Labour discussion, as per usual, has the typical persistent scoldings.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4766094-lib-dems-just-showed-their-true-colours

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4767205-libdems-dont-want-women?reply=124793787

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4767027-labour-must-fix-its-trans-stance-to-win-the-next-election-party-needs-to-clarify-its-policies-to-be-closer-to-the-publics-views-on-the-debate?

I just wish that people could understand that women have a right to prioritise women's issues.

women have rights?

I mean, in the narrowest possible, legal technical sense, probably.

It strikes me that, although I'd say the generally acceptable position on this has had to shift in our favour recently, largely due to the spotlight on the Isla Bryson case, there's a danger of that becoming the new border.

That is, an acceptance that there are bad actors and piss-takers, and that women have the right to say no to them in female spaces, but that it's still somehow unacceptable for women to say no male bodies in our space, regardless of GRC status, surgery, etc. That a man who's undergone SRS is not a specific serial threat and so what reason could we possibly have to object?

For serial there, read sexual. My auto text is a prude.

Here’s the introduction to Baroness Casey’s report into the Metropolitan police.

She notes that without the tenacity of many women and other Met victims, their cases would have remained closed and never brought to light.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/95580-2/

The Met report was mentioned on the radio headlines last night, and just the brief summary was enough to get my blood pressure up (plus a huge dose of "No shit, Sherlock!"). I'm girding my loins to read up more.

It strikes me that, although I'd say the generally acceptable position on this has had to shift in our favour recently, largely due to the spotlight on the Isla Bryson case, there's a danger of that becoming the new border.

That is, an acceptance that there are bad actors and piss-takers, and that women have the right to say no to them in female spaces, but that it's still somehow unacceptable for women to say no male bodies in our space, regardless of GRC status, surgery, etc. That a man who's undergone SRS is not a specific serial threat and so what reason could we possibly have to object?

Yes I agree. We need not only to complain about threat, but also the attack on our privacy and dignity, which cannot be reconciled, and our perfect right to disbelieve in an unconvincing, flimsy, ideology.

A problem is that the "reasonable" sorts think all problems are minimal with some very limited safeguarding, and in this sexist society male feelings about being "othered" trump women's feelings.

I don't really want to pile into that Labour Party thread, but does anyone else, as I am increasingly doing, kinda resent the idea/description that I am "socially conservative" in supporting women's rights? I don't consider that I've ever been "conservative", in a political or social sense, but is now, if Labour sheep and goats are being divided into "progressives" and "conservatives", us old (relatively) people are in the conservative group and the progressiveness is left to blue-haired youngsters?

If people in their twenties and thirties don't agree with us, we gotta big problem, surely?

My daughter in her 40s doesn't agree with us. She thinks getting the Tories out is more important than anything else and somewhat pooh poohs my GC concerns.

I’m with your daughter, Brit, although down here it’ll probably be the Lib Dems with the best chance of unseating all the 20+K Tory majorities in the south-west. We cannot survive another Tory government, they have destroyed the UK. Everything else is secondary, to me.

I'm sure that's a common position too, @Britinme . I'd have probably said similar myself 18 months ago. Although I've been massively underwhelmed by Starmer from the start. GC is just another issue where his insincerity shines through like a beacon.

I was noodling around on twitter, noticed this tweet and read a bit of the thread to amuse myself. I then went back and noticed who had sent the original tweet. I'm heartbroken, it was the Friendly Atheist! I used to watch his YouTube videos (until, frankly, they got a bit repetitive). I'd heard the atheist youtubers had fallen hard for genderwoo, but this was the first time I'd run smack into it. Also the guy in the first comment, but I'd never much cared for him. Are there any atheist youtubers not keeping the new faith?

https://twitter.com/hemantmehta/status/1637971772099133441?s=20

I don't really want to pile into that Labour Party thread, but does anyone else, as I am increasingly doing, kinda resent the idea/description that I am "socially conservative" in supporting women's rights?

I can recall one of the TRSOH intellectual giants from the old place explaining that all we Bad People, despite having been part of the "progressive" side all our lives, had in fact always been Bad Inside all along and the Badness had finally been revealed to the universe thanks to the One Special Issue.

On the specific issue of voting to get the Tories out, everybody has to make their own judgement and draw their own red lines. One of my red lines is that I'd find it very hard to give my vote to anybody who is a bollock-spouting slogan-chanting reality-denying fantasist, and I am equal-opportunity repulsed by "Brexit: Sunlit Uplands!"/ "Stop the small boats and send 'em to Rwanda"/ "Earth is Flat!"/ "Anthropogenic climate change is made-up"/ "Sex is a Spectrum and It is Impossible to Detect the Sex of members of our own species and Humans Can Be Born in the Wrong Body and Can Change Sex and Anyway the Best Ladies have Penises!"

Yeah, all of that. They say these things, they probably don't believe them themselves, but they say them anyway. Just seems to me that they will say any old shit, if their focus groups tell them that's what people want to hear (Brexit, Channel boats, etc). Except that, when it comes to GC, they are starting to find out that women won't wear it.

@Kucinghitam

... "Brexit: Sunlit Uplands!"/ "Stop the small boats and send 'em to Rwanda"/ "Earth is Flat!"/ "Anthropogenic climate change is made-up"/ "Sex is a Spectrum and It is Impossible to Detect the Sex of members of our own species and Humans Can Be Born in the Wrong Body and Can Change Sex and Anyway the Best Ladies have Penises!"

I may adopt this as my manifesto for the BSSCRDF (bollock-spouting slogan-chanting reality-denying fantasist) party I am idly planning to found. I think we should do well.

I'll just leave this here. Minnesota has awarded them Woman of the Year, in another case of pissing up women's legs.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11888153/Transgender-lawmaker-Minnesota-wins-USA-Today-Women-Year-alongside-Michelle-Obama.html#comments

There's a punter on the 'religious sex workers' thread.

Why the hell are there punters in FWR?

I was reading about the lib dem conference in a daily email from the Glinner. Apparently and oh so delightfully, Ed Davey made his way into the conference just to ensure that the vote didn't happen and then fucked off again.

Re voting. I agree, each and every person has to do what is right for them when it comes to voting - well unless they're voting Tory, then they need to stay at home and do nothing at all - but spoiling your vote is a legitimate response to the current political culture with or without gender woo. There is no party that gives a flying fuck about ordinary people, that is working to make life better for ordinary people, that is truly bothered by migrants being treated like animals, that has ever given a shit about women as people in our own rights. I would not judge anyone for voting Labour or LibDem or Green for being a bit better than the current incumbents but I can't and won't vote for any of them.

Not for the first time, I fully agree with all of that, Crows.

Same reason FWR is currently overrun with racists pretending to care about women’s rights currently?

Where? Point me to a thread? And please report any racist posts you see. I will do the same.