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Feminism: Sex & gender discussions

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 4

984 replies

Kucinghitam · 09/03/2023 09:19

Continuation of Thread 3.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

OP posts:
Tricyrtis2022 · 09/03/2023 09:21

Thank you, Kuc!

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 09/03/2023 09:22

Thanks you for the new thread.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 09/03/2023 09:28

oh, I was reading the transmen using men's loos, so what if it makes blokes uncomfortable thread and it's been taken down for interrogation.

angelico53 · 09/03/2023 09:30

Ta, kuc.

I'm still tyrying to get those numbers on transwomen segementation - what proportion are dignosed/onpathway and what intact, potentially paraphilia types. Or not "potentially" at all.

I thought I'd message HJoyce, DocStock but, of course, they block on twitter. I'll keep trying.

Has anyone read "Time to Think"? I'm about 30% in (but I wish I'd bought an ebook, cos it's so hard to hoild and keep open with painful droppy hands). It's fascinating.

Kucinghitam · 09/03/2023 09:34

Has anyone read "Time to Think"? I'm about 30% in (but I wish I'd bought an ebook, cos it's so hard to hoild and keep open with painful droppy hands). It's fascinating.

I believe Mavis has read it.

I will buy it, but probably not for a while - I tend to do my book-buying in clusters, just before a holiday usually.

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 09/03/2023 09:45

I keep missing these and the phone can't cope with long threads so checking in.

MavisMcMinty · 09/03/2023 10:19

Yes, finished Time to Think a couple of days ago. It’s very readable, with some shocks (like GIDS actually has/had a research team despite their total lack of data), but had to keep putting it down to absorb what I was reading. The problems that finally brought them down were the problems identified 15 years ago, repeated over and over and over again.

The most shocking thing for me was the constant accusation of TRANSPHOBIA directed at clinicians raising concerns. Clinicians excited and proud to be working for such a groundbreaking service in the world-renowned Tavistock, accused of transphobia.

And throughout, Polly Carmichael sat on her throne, refusing to listen, in cahoots with demanding bossy charities like Mermaids and GIRES, bursting into tears whenever anyone dared to question her policies, her empire.

MavisMcMinty · 09/03/2023 10:22

Put THAT in the Guardian.

SinnerBoy · 09/03/2023 10:25

MavisMcMinty · Today 10:22

Put THAT in the Guardian.

They won't, as it's transphobic. In fact, you see that bit of Blu Tac on my bookcase? THAT'S transphobic, the bigoted bit of gum.

Britinme · 09/03/2023 10:26

Thanks @MavisMcMinty - sounds like a book worth reading.

MavisMcMinty · 09/03/2023 10:31

So if anyone accuses you of transphobia to shut you up, just say “What, like the dedicated professionals working for GIDS?” because if they’re transphobic so is the whole fucking world.

SinnerBoy · 09/03/2023 10:33

Well, quite. It's completely and utterly meaningless, isn't it?

MavisMcMinty · 09/03/2023 10:33

And of course some of the “transphobic” staff were joking that “there will be no gay children left”, i.e. accusing their puberty-blocking colleagues of being homophobic.

MavisMcMinty · 09/03/2023 10:46

And I promise this will be the last post on the topic (at least for this morning), but I was a clinical nurse specialist for the last 23 years of my career, and had to write annual reports including caseload audits and clinical outcomes. I didn’t have a research department to do it for me, and I always had to write it at home on my weekends off because like all clinical services in the NHS we were overwhelmed with referrals on a shoestring budget. If I hadn’t provided this evidence for my role, they’d’ve axed it in the name of “efficiency savings”.

GIDS had no supporting data for anything they did. For decades.

Boiledbeetle · 09/03/2023 11:11

750 left

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 4
MavisMcMinty · 09/03/2023 11:32

And some powerful people want us to have more babies. How can UK childcare be fixed?

www.theguardian.com/money/2023/mar/09/its-cheaper-to-not-work-childcare-shortage-in-england-puts-strain-on-parents

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 09/03/2023 11:43

I did have half an idea yesterday of celebrating IWD by taking an info dump of everything discussed on the general conversations threads (and individual FWR threads started during the same period) and dropping it Elsewhere to show how much they had failed to discuss since events threw some of us over here. [Apologies for cliquey post.]

But then I realised how much that was - a full thread a month, plus all the individual topics - and there simply wasn't enough time in the day. Plus I'd much rather stay here and talk with people who do actually care, and think, and know about the issues rather than goad those who have their fingers stuck firmly in their ears.

DeanVolecapeAKAelderberry · 09/03/2023 11:51

I have been very sruck by just how much is discussed on this board, and the detail. It makes this thread very useful for providing links and summaries and general comments.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/03/2023 12:01

I did have half an idea yesterday of celebrating IWD by taking an info dump of everything discussed on the general conversations threads (and individual FWR threads started during the same period) and dropping it Elsewhere to show how much they had failed to discuss since events threw some of us over here. [Apologies for cliquey post.]

I just think they fundamentally don't grasp what the problem is for women and girls or particularly see us as a disadvantaged class on the grounds of sex. Their arguments are quite familiar. They seem to think the sad feelings of trans people trump all and that almost everything else, including silencing women and making the world more hostile for women, is a reasonable price to pay to make those other people feel better. As a survivor of DV I know what coercive control feels like, and I don't agree it's acceptable to emotionally blackmail people with suicide threats, either directly or indirectly.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/03/2023 12:02

It doesn't help that most of the voices on that thread appear to be men now.

Winterborne74 · 09/03/2023 12:03

Reasonable and civil men who do nuance.

Tricyrtis2022 · 09/03/2023 12:15

Looking at the 'what are your thoughts on agender' thread earlier and found this delightful comment. I can't explain how, but it's hilarious and has been making me giggle for the last couple of hours.

Women's rights general conversations - Thread 4
Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/03/2023 12:15

Most do, yes. But there's still a tone of not being able to explicitly state that you don't believe in gender identity ideology because it's not "sympathetic" enough to "genuine" trans people. I do appreciate men's support, but there are elements of women's experience of being ignored and sidelined that they can't really speak to. Just venting really. This is a general point, not just about the other place, it happens all over social media. Men set what's considered "reasonable" for women about rights' issues in a way that other disadvantaged groups wouldn't stand for from non members.

Tricyrtis2022 · 09/03/2023 12:16

Tricyrtis2022 · 09/03/2023 12:15

Looking at the 'what are your thoughts on agender' thread earlier and found this delightful comment. I can't explain how, but it's hilarious and has been making me giggle for the last couple of hours.

As ever, you need to expand the pic.

Tricyrtis2022 · 09/03/2023 12:18

Men set what's considered "reasonable" for women about rights' issues in a way that other disadvantaged groups wouldn't stand for from non members.

Very good point, Ereshkigalangcleg!

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