Caba Baba Rave - take your baby to watch nearly naked men in fetish gear

[Clymene]

Journalist Dominique Samuels has posted video of one of their events: https://twitter.com/dominiquetaegon/status/1630948003962912768?s=61&t=gd6tu0Iz6JpyKXGLWMLGjg

Which features men gyrating and hanging from the ceiling surrounded by a crowd of clueless women and their babies.

I would say it's NSFW but it's apparently safe for babies so have a watch.

Here's a reddux article:

https://reduxx.info/uk-sold-out-rave-for-babies-featuring-drag-queens-prompts-outrage/

Since the video went viral, the company has taken down its website and Facebook and made their Instagram private. I wonder why?

There has been a LOT of research into early childhood memories and the current consensus is that it is very unusual for an adult, or older child, to recall anything from before the age of about two and a half.

"Memories" from before this age are almost always "reconstructions" based on what we have been told happened, or from photographs, videos, etc. The vividness of a "memory" is also no guide to whether an event actually happened in the way we "remember" it or even if it happened at all.

Until about age two and half most memories are so fragile that they fade quickly. Which is one reason why frequent repetition of "The Wheels on The Bus" (and similar) is so loved by young children. The constant repetition accommodates the fragility of memory and allows the child to remember and take part in the interaction.

The way the adult "performs" with and for the child is also a key part of the attraction. Imagine how little a child would engage if you recited "The Wheels on The Bus" in a monotone with no facial expression or movement or interaction with the child?

For many people "childhood amnesia" kicks in about age 7 - 9 with children of that age unable to remember much if anything from before age two and half to three.

"Can you trust your earliest childhood memories?"
www.bbc.com/future/article/20190516-why-you-cannot-trust-your-earliest-childhood-memories

"The mystery of why you can't remember being a baby"
www.bbc.com/future/article/20160726-the-mystery-of-why-you-cant-remember-being-a-baby

So one-off exposure to the bizarre, sexualised and even frightening experience of attending the revolting "Baby Cabaret" is unlikely to have any permanent effect on a child under the age of two and a half.

IMHO the impact on the parents is the bigger worry. They are being groomed as to what it is acceptable or wise. Mums who might normally be outraged or concerned if an adult interacted with their child in such a familiar or sexualised way are being groomed to lower their defences and not sense danger.

They, not the babies, will be the ones who follow-up by booking drag queens for kids parties and buying the books promoted by drag queens to read to their children. The books further groom the parents as well as the children.

"Trans picture books for little children"
www.transgendertrend.com/trans-picture-books-little-children/

What I find more worrying than babies and toddlers attending these events is that older children are involved.

The Reduxx article reports that, "Their events are directed at parents with babies up to 2 years old"

"UK: Sold Out “Rave” For Babies Featuring Drag Queens Prompts Outrage"
reduxx.info/uk-sold-out-rave-for-babies-featuring-drag-queens-prompts-outrage/

Everything on the Cabababarave website talks about and depicts babies.

However, the Happity Booking page (now deleted) said:

Baby Cabaret - BABY & TODDLER CABARET SESSION (UNDER 5S)
45 minutes parents and baby/toddler group, for little ones under 5 !

Archived:
web.archive.org/web/20220627023452/www.happity.co.uk/schedules/baby-cabaret-watford-westfield-family-centre-baby-toddler-cabaret-session-under-5s

Children aged 3 -5 are "impressionable", likely to remember and be impacted by even a "one off" event.

The Women's Rights Network has done a very good series of articles on Drag Queen Story Hour, which targets children in this age range:

"DRAG QUEENS & OUR CHILDREN"
www.womensrights.network/drag-queen-story-hour

This pro-DQSH article celebrates the real agenda:

"Drag queens are more political than ever. Can they lead a movement?"
www.vox.com/identities/2018/11/5/18056558/drag-queens-politics-activism-lgbtq-rupaul

CHILD DEVELOPMENT

To raise a child in "a featureless grey room with white noise playing" would affect the child's development in so many ways. At a basic, physiological level, development of vision would be permanently affected, for example, and cognitive development might be permanently affected.

We don't need to imagine the outcomes.

Children with severe physical disabilities who are left lying on their backs day in and day out fail to develop their optical pathways, from development of the eyes right through to the brain.

Children rescued from Romanian orphanages in the 1990's suffered many other forms of neglect, often being starved of food, water and human contact as well as being left to lie in their cots staring at the ceiling. The effects of physical and emotional neglect are long-lasting.

"The Lessons Learned from Romanian Orphans 30 Years Later"
evergreenpsychotherapycenter.com/the-lessons-learned-from-romanian-orphans-30-years-later/

"Early Neglect Alters Kids' Brains"
www.livescience.com/21778-early-neglect-alters-kids-brains.html

In terms of value to a baby or toddler, even if it is boring for parents, "The Wheels on The Bus", is far better than a Drag/Circus act or plonking the kid down alone with a "screen".

Maybe parents would enjoy interacting with their child during "The Wheels on The Bus" more if they were aware of the value to the child and alert to the indications of development and of their child's bonding with them? This does not come naturally to all parents.

Even very young babies behave instinctively in a way that is "intended" to teach parents how to react to them but not all parents are naturally able to catch a baby's cues.

If anyone is interested in following this up, I would highly recommend starting with the work of Colywn Trevarthen:

"Making Music with Your Baby"
supportingchildcaregivers.com/tag/colwyn-trevarthen/

Researchgate - Colwyn Trevarthen
www.researchgate.net/profile/Colwyn-Trevarthen/research

I have a memory, a bit fuzzy, of being taken to see a steam engine by my dad with mum and sister. It was a big deal, a day out. I had a clear memory of the engine big, dark with a short funnel.

My dad had no interest in steam trains. And I can't ask him now, but I read that the last train pulled by a steam engine as a regular passenger service was in 1968. I'll never know for sure but I think we went to see it, it's the only thing that fits. I've seen pictures of the engine and it fits my memory. We never talked about it afterwards, so I don't think it's a reconstructed memory. I'd have been about 18 months old.

@Bosky i agree with much of what you say but just because a memory has not been laid down permanently after a strong experience, doesn't mean it hasn't had a big impact on the brain of a baby. These early experiences are transformative to the brain because of neuroplasticity, and so the effect of an experience like CBR cannot be understood totally just by whether they remember as an adult. Perhaps I misread what you were trying to imply?

I don’t know much about cognition and memory. I believe those that assert that a young baby won’t remember seeing a display like this.

I don’t know what sort of ‘thinking’ young babies do, but I wonder about the baby making associations on a very basic level based on what they can see. I know from my own experience that babies can indicate their enthusiasm for a feed by patting on Mum’s chest or smiling and reaching their arms out when the boob appears. They’ve made a simple association between Mum’s breast and relieving their hunger (or receiving comfort).

Not unreasonable to think a baby might be making associations when they see a cabaret drag show. Especially if they see that kind of thing on a regular basis…

’A man I haven’t met before is in his pants. I can see what parts of his body look like. Mummy is smiling and clapping. This is a happy and fun event. This is a good thing.’

If they are exposed several times to such displays, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to suggest that the baby would feel comfortable in the situation (because Mummy looks happy!) Low boundaries established. Nothing unusual or worrying about a man you don’t know in his pants approaching you, talking to you and smiling at you. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I'm sure you are right, there, @waterlego

I have a phobia that comes from an incident that happened when I was a toddler. I cannot remember the incident but, nevertheless, it embedded something in my mind that gave me the phobia.

That aside, are the parents who think this ok because their children are, in their eyes, too young to take it in not at all worried that some of the adults may be getting off on the presence of their children? Are they not worried about turning their child into a sexual prop? Even if you were a fan of drag, this show looked really shit and amateurish and totally lacking in the right ambience, so why claim it was aimed at the adults when adult drag fans would have had much higher expectations?

Yeah the argument about whether babies will remember it is a red herring. Unless they’re also arguing that we’re entirely unaffected by life events that happen before we turn three.

The silly Daily Mail article said that this is about “diversity and inclusion.” How could it be a “diversity and inclusion” thing if the babies aren’t affected by it and don’t remember it? Even the defenders of this activity know on some level it’s about breaking down children’s boundaries.

Even the defenders of this activity know on some level it’s about breaking down children’s boundaries.

It's all about the boundaries and making it harder to defend them.

One of the powerful scenes in Unforgotten Series 2 was when Tessa, the police officer wife of a child rapist, who had known about the abuse ring, but tried to maintain she hadn't, broke down under interview and said of the 80s: [it was an era when] a rock star could go on telly and be interviewed about his underage girlfriend without getting arrested. We all bought into that – until we didn’t.

I think it's the same series with an scene in an empty gym with a janitor who talks about child abuse and why enquiries are a waste of money because 'the past is a foreign country.' Cassie Stuart replies that it's never stopped and unless there's a reckoning, people will be having the same conversation in another 20 and 30 years. (I'm paraphrasing.)

If it's OK to do this for babies and toddlers, of course it's fine to have The Family Sex Show as a viable and integral part of the PHSE curriculum.

If you tolerate this…

Hi, does anyone know if the AIBU thread is still there? I spent a lot of yesterday reading it and I thought it was so good a wider audience was being exposed to what's happening (particularly as I'm local to all of this and the community FB group keeps deleting any threads about it).

I think it's so important to keep this issues raised more widely as most people literally can't believe it's happening. I'm furious at being labelled as fascist by our local mummy comedians because I was uneasy about DQST and now there is radio silence about this new development, even though it's just the logical next step

Still going.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4755459-to-be-upset-that-toddlers-and-babies-are-being-subjected-to-this?page=28

The title is ambiguous so it’s easy to forget what it was called (perfect AIBU title tho!)

@BernardBlacksMolluscs - you were quoted in The Sun!

No link, because: Hillsborough.

Here’s a screenshot. Are you gonna contact them and demand they fix the typo on your username? 😆

Oh I totally agree.

This is a very disturbing and sobering depiction what can and is happening to children using their children for social media likes and £££

Also children stating their opinion on parents sharing pictures of them when younger on social media without permission:

I agree that a huge backlash is coming. Hate government overreach too, but feel they ought to step in and put a ban on parents sharing their children on SM. These children are going to grow up and start asking why no one protected them, and yes, will be very angry.

The argument of whether a child will remember or not does not hold water.

We have age restrictions for a reason - there is no exemption on 18 films etc for babies.

Ignominy at last, Bernard!

Sudden thought: I wonder if having your childhood documented on social media could be a contributing factor to the wave of tweens and teens adopting new, completely self-authored identities?

Not just the classic trans IDs but the random tumblr neogenders & otherkins and the kids larping at having multiple personalities, aka ‘systems’ on TikTok?

Gosh I must be very uncool, I made do with Baby Ballet, Creation Station and Hartbeeps. As for this:

"Hosted by Lizzie and Gemma – Two performers turned mums who were constantly looking to be entertained whilst holding a baby in one hand and a pint in the other.. so CABABABARAVE was born.
“We wanted to create the type of event we ourselves as Mums would want to go to. There’s only so many times you can listen to the fking Wheels on the Bus. We wanted to give parents the experience of a ‘big London night out’.. cabaret, drinks and dancing.. but one you can bring your baby to and still be home for bedtime”

Sorry love but when you have a baby you kind of sign up for that, it's only 3 or 4 years and it flys by far too quickly. I kinda liked those years as I knew it wasn't forever and was a really special time 🤷‍♀️ Giving up a pint and a drag show was a small price to pay to live in that lovely fluffy baby/tiny child bubble for a fleeting moment.

I was no saint, don't get me wrong, I had nights out when DD was with her grandparents but that was at night and she was safely asleep elsewhere. There's just no need for this awful event. They'll get away with it though, they'll quietly slink off like the family sex show did and that'll be the end of it.

I think the question of whether babies will specifically recall this event is a little beside the point. To me, there are a few problems with the parents. They are acting irresponsibly in terms of what they will expose their children to, they are under the influence of alcohol while doing it, they are permitting their children to be used as props for this nonsense, they are being groomed into allowing this kind of thing and once the children age out of this, what do their parents graduate to exposing them to?

Parents all appear to be happy to let their babies see this. Society needs to step in and say this is not ok. Grooming of babies and children is not acceptable and not 'light hearted fun'

Some parents abuse children sexually, physically etc. Society steps in when this is known.

Some parents are neglectful. Society step in.

@CryptoFascistMadameCholetSudden thought: I wonder if having your childhood documented on social media could be a contributing factor to the wave of tweens and teens adopting new, completely self-authored identities?

Not just the classic trans IDs but the random tumblr neogenders & otherkins and the kids larping at having multiple personalities, aka ‘systems’ on TikTok?

(Pauses mid-way through dunking a Jacobs Cracker in tea)

Otherkins? What are they/does that refer to? I have a depressing feeling it's information that won't enrich my life, but nevertheless is something I ought to know already...

It's a really interesting question. Maybe having your whole life documented in a digital, online space, makes you identify with it in a stronger and different way.
Before you're old enough to even know who you are, half of you already exists online, like a digital doppelganger.
It's a mirror verse, a universe within a universe, one where anything that can be imagined can be 'real' and like Alice stepping through the looking glass, maybe it's no longer about the real world "you" linking into an artificial one, but "you" who already exists in the artificial digital space, linking back into the corporeal one.

All your 'friends' and their histories are online too, and new friends too with assumed histories, but who checks? You're used to trusting what you see online and ascribing values to them. They are as real to you as real life, and they can tell you who you are, long before you've had time to acquire any material, real-world life experience to inform yourself who you are. And why would you, or should you question those voices, when your parents have trusted the digital medium so much, they've deposited most of what should have been your intimate existence in that space?

Maybe that's the idea, to create a sense that our true identities exist in the digital space, which alone can reflect our true 'inner' selves since it has no inconvenient physical or material 'borders', such as chromosomes.

That would explain the sudden increase in nebulous "I'm born XY, but my soul feels like it's a neo-zxklywfq" malarky that bears no correlation to scientific biological fact.

Perhaps, by documenting every facet of our children's lives online, we are creating, priming and reinforcing this sense that the person we reflect online is as real and crucially, as important, and most of all as valid as anything in the real world.

I'm probably not explaining my thoughts well and gone off a tangent, but essentially, I think you're definitely onto something there.

@DysonSpheres

Really intriguing commentary...when everything can be nonsense as there's no objective truth online (to keep with your Alice in Wonderland analogy), then why not have a self-imposed nonsense identity?

I have just seen this on Twitter. A little girl acting like a drag Queen and the mums paying her!

twitter.com/daltonreport/status/1632096217428795392?s=61&t=sGNbXjC277ajck0WK0mZnw

And men filming it

Well that was disturbing 😳

Yes, I've seen that video. It's sad and disturbing and the adults are a disgrace. It reminds me of stories of Desmond Is Amazing performing in gay nightclubs with men throwing money at him. There are also several videos out there of children at 'family friendly' drag events putting money in the g-strings of grown men. I bet these same parents would, rightly, consider child beauty pageants as over-sexualised, but this is way worse.