Caba Baba Rave - take your baby to watch nearly naked men in fetish gear

[Clymene]

Journalist Dominique Samuels has posted video of one of their events: https://twitter.com/dominiquetaegon/status/1630948003962912768?s=61&t=gd6tu0Iz6JpyKXGLWMLGjg

Which features men gyrating and hanging from the ceiling surrounded by a crowd of clueless women and their babies.

I would say it's NSFW but it's apparently safe for babies so have a watch.

Here's a reddux article:

https://reduxx.info/uk-sold-out-rave-for-babies-featuring-drag-queens-prompts-outrage/

Since the video went viral, the company has taken down its website and Facebook and made their Instagram private. I wonder why?

Great post

Leyton/Leytonstone is north east London, not south London, fwiw.

And they'll be all surprised when their currently 5 year old daughter comes home at 13 pregnant by a 37 year old because they eroded all her boundaries.

TANGENT ALERT!

IMO a website needs to have a block user function and a predatory algorithm that utilises topics and subjects to really become an echo chamber.

Mumsnet algorithms are minimal
(just the small ‘trending’ list really, as I believe ‘active’ is more time based than popularity based?) and even the external advertising embedded on the talk boards is pretty basic and not individual interest-tailored (I’ve currently got some white, floaty dresses that in my hands would be a stained rag by the end of breakfast).

Compare that to a site like twitter (where users can block thousands of people via shared blocklists or programmed blockbots and make their tweets visible only to a pre approved audience) or instagram (where what you see, both from accounts you follow and accounts you don’t follow, is largely decided for you and they put things similar b to things you’ve liked but EXTRA in your infinitely scrolling feed and then prey on your AI estimated insecurities to sell you expensive shit you don’t need) or Facebook, where everyone you are connected to is a ‘friend’ or a ‘friend of a friend’ and Mumsnet really doesn’t qualify as an echo chamber at all.

Here you can ‘hide’ topics that you aren’t interested in but all it does is stop them from appearing on your ‘active’ page… and I don’t habitually use the active page anyway (especially not now we have the relatively recent ‘follow’ function for boards).

Ngl there are a few regular posters that I would LOvE to block (and I fully expect the feeling is mutual!) but overall I think Mumsnet is genuinely a healthier place that fosters a more varied discussion precisely because it doesn’t have a block user function.

While it’s true that Mumsnet members opinions aren’t very varied in some of the more specific, less general topic areas, the site itself doesn’t have any functions that enable an individual user to block off dissenting opinions.
This makes for a weirdly shocking experience when a niche interest board thread randomly ends up in ‘trending’ - a recent example is one from the ‘Tattoos’ topic board that hit trending on a Saturday afternoon and was subsequently flooded with ‘yuk, I don’t like ANY tattoos on ANYONE!’ comments, whereas an average week on the tattoo topic board itself doesn’t have any comments like that at all (because why would you even be there if you had no interest in tattoos?)

If someone wants more dissenting opinions on the Sex and Gender board they need to get on and post those dissenting opinions and ‘be the change they want to see’.

However, posting one’s opinion does come with the risk of having one’s opinion challenged, deconstructed and, if it’s a bit of a daft opinion, laughed at.

And if it’s an opinion that, when followed through to the subsequent endpoint, results in dire consequences for women, for children, for truth and for society?

One is likely to have one’s arse handed to one on a plate 🤷‍♀️

I suspect that article will have alerted many gay men for whom drag is an essential part of their culture.

@CryptoFascistMadameCholet I enjoyed your informative TANGENT.

Thank you for that article. What a meandering piece with plenty of intellectual short cuts to convince the audience they should agree with him if they’re moderate and uninterested in conflict or ‘war on the west’. I imagine the vote split was 50/50 because it’s easy to take the piece at face value, including the much worn trope that as long as parents are unconcerned with taking their children to a pantomime at Christmas, this is all fine. Nothing to see.

I suspect confusion is happening re: locations because:

The pub with the drag protests outside it last week (Honor Oak Pub) is in the borough of Lewisham.

CabaBabaRave ‘tours’ multiple venues so the photos we’ve all seen are from venues in Leyton and Leytonstone but they’ve also used a venue on Lewisham High Street (Fox and Firkin) one in Lambeth (The Flair Ground, as part of The Vault Festival) and one in Walthamstow, E17 (Big Penny Social).

I can also see advertising for an event in Manchester last October, but so far, no evidence as to whether that one actually took place.

In addition, yet another org, Clip Theatre, are running bring-a-baby drag-bingo events in various South London pubs - Balham, Bromley, East Dulwich & Brixton.

So yes, baby drag events in London are now a confusing whackamole type situation!

The photo of Lucinda B Hind attached here is from the Fox & Firkin’s website, but I don’t know where it was taken - looks like a contemporary theatre type space/drama studio with the utilitarian floor and black walls?

I have a strong suspicion that the ‘husbands / b.f s’ will be a motivating force behind this gig. It’s an interesting concept that this would be happening all unknowing to the ‘male partners’ concerned.

I know, let’s just blame those pesky women, shall we?

[tangent alert] Follow-up for @CryptoFascistMadameCholet's tangent discussion (with which I agree): Echo chambers v epistemic bubbles

"An ‘epistemic bubble’ is an informational network from which relevant voices have been excluded by omission. That omission might be purposeful: we might be selectively avoiding contact with contrary views because, say, they make us uncomfortable. As social scientists tell us, we like to engage in selective exposure, seeking out information that confirms our own worldview. But that omission can also be entirely inadvertent. Even if we’re not actively trying to avoid disagreement, our Facebook friends tend to share our views and interests. When we take networks built for social reasons and start using them as our information feeds, we tend to miss out on contrary views and run into exaggerated degrees of agreement.

An ‘echo chamber’ is a social structure from which other relevant voices have been actively discredited. Where an epistemic bubble merely omits contrary views, an echo chamber brings its members to actively distrust outsiders. In their book Echo Chamber: Rush Limbaugh and the Conservative Media Establishment (2010), Kathleen Hall Jamieson and Frank Cappella offer a groundbreaking analysis of the phenomenon. For them, an echo chamber is something like a cult. A cult isolates its members by actively alienating them from any outside sources. Those outside are actively labelled as malignant and untrustworthy. A cult member’s trust is narrowed, aimed with laser-like focus on certain insider voices. In epistemic bubbles, other voices are not heard; in echo chambers, other voices are actively undermined."

blog.ayjay.org/a-useful-distinction/

[/tangent alert]

LGBT people come in all shapes, sizes and interests, just like everyone else.

Surely that is the thing we teach children?

This x1000. Teaching children that there is only one correct way to be XYZ is a terrible message. And how are drag queens representative of anything besides a sexualised spectacle?

Oooh @RethinkingLife - that is a useful distinction - overlooked alternative opinions rather than deliberately excluded alternative opinions.

Funnily enough, I just returned to the thread to share an article from a viewpoint completely opposite to my own, a piece from a young (younger than me anyway!) female opinion columnist who thinks Caba Baba Rave and DQSH are all lovely and those who protest are motivated by something other than child safety…

www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-11819859/These-Drag-Queen-events-PARENTS-not-babies.html

Couple of screenshotted highlights, including ‘the kids are under two’ (so it’s fine to see a man upside down in a thong?)

Followed by (paraphrasing) ‘My earliest memory is my mum doing a dress fitting for a half naked drag queen and it never did me any harm!’

. Why the fuck did your mam invite an unrelated adult male into your home to be fitted for a cross dressing stage costume (an activity that usually involves a fair bit of standing about in one’s kecks) in front of your toddler eyes? It was clearly a significant event if you can remember it in adulthood!

Perfect illustration of how people raised without appropriate boundaries in young childhood are rendered unable to instinctively recognise what is and isn’t acceptable adult behaviour. Particularly problematic when they become parents themselves.

One of the below the line comments sums
this article up perfectly, ‘Is this satire?’

(emoji sticker my edit)

'I'm not trying to compare the two', but that's exactly what you just did.

Proper bonkers, innit?

Maybe she’s just been so thoroughly force teamed with the other letters in the LGBTQIA2SS++ she can’t see the wood (upside down man in a thong showing his arsecheeks to babies) from the trees (perfectly normal LGB families living normal, non-fetishistic lives)?

And the alternative take to the article I posted above…

Excellent article by James Esses in the speccie - couple of screenshots because I’m too lazy to format quotes:

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-sinister-rise-of-drag-shows-for-children/

God this is apt:

But the adults were soon divided over the issue of sex. Some were determined to encourage their children to show and touch their genitalia, while the others were horrified by the idea.

"It was never addressed quite that directly, but it was clear that in the end, sex with the two female teachers was considered," says Schuller. "I found it incredibly difficult to take a stance. I felt that what we were trying to do was fundamentally correct, but when it came to this issue, I thought: This is crazy, it just isn't right. But then I felt ashamed of thinking that way. I think many were in the same position."

Wtf is going on!

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen " I know, let’s just blame those pesky women, shall we? "

Absolutely blame the 2 women that organised the show and absolutely blame the women that took their kids! Why should they get a free pass?!
There may well have been men there but the vast majority of those attending were women! Were they all forced by to go by their absent on the day husbands?

Im happy blaming the two women who organised it

slightly…and i mean slightly less happy blaming the attendees

i can certainly envisage someone being told its ‘circus’ acts and ‘drag’ and not really putting two and two together, and then feeling unable to leave

but i agree to a certain extent (really sitting on that fence here) that they could have left

but I’m absolutely not going to agree that they were forced into it by their partners…dh had no fucking clue what i was up to during the day

That Der Spiegel article was absolutely chilling. What happened to all those children? What are they like today? Damaged? Pedophiles?

The lowering of taboos on the altar of ideology can have horrific outcomes.

Yes. It is horrific how we humans are able to compartmentalise. Awful things seeming rational, even though the instincts are telling us it’s wrong.

You've quoted the text that has never left me since reading it.

It was so similar to the anguish and confusion reported by Elaine Fairweather in the Helen Joyce piece.

In 1979, Eileen Fairweather was working at Spare Rib, a radical-feminist magazine. She was young and new to journalism, but assigned to read Paedophilia: The Radical Case, in which Tom O’Carroll, later imprisoned for child-abuse, argued for lowering the age of consent to four. She recalls “anguished, earnest” discussions with feminist friends about what they should write about it. “I did draft something, arguing that the existing age of consent was not ‘patriarchal’, but protected children,” she says. “But I never even dared show it to anyone.” No-one back then realized the extent and brutality of child-abuse. And the pedophile movement had so thoroughly hijacked the gay movement that, if you said you were against “child sexual liberation”—as, outrageously, they put it—you were branded “anti-gay.” She says she sees “the same intimidation and paralysis of intelligence” with the transgender debate, with people terrified to express legitimate concerns about infiltration and safeguarding.

quillette.com/2018/12/04/the-new-patriarchy-how-trans-radicalism-hurts-women-children-and-trans-people-themselves/

I can't draw a direct line but I can link another article that haunts me and seems a logical outcome of the trajectory of 'progressive development'.

When German anti-prostitution advocates talk about the situation of prostitution in Germany, we hear the same responses, over and over: “You’ve got to be kidding!” or “How is this possible?” When we do presentations in other countries, people in the audience will often start to cry or ask for a break after 15 minutes to get some fresh air. The same presentations in Germany cause outrage as well, but we’ve noticed that people have become so accustomed to the situation, their emotional response is subdued. In fact, German men will often openly and proudly out themselves as sex buyers at abolitionist events. There is no shame in being a commercial sex buyer in Germany. This is an obvious and alarming sign that decades of legalized prostitution have shaped society.

Legalized Prostitution In Germany Looks Like A Living Nightmare

fightthenewdrug.org/germanys-legalized-prostitution-industry-looks-like-a-real-life-horror-movie/

Little babies don't need to see naked men performing sexualy explicit dances.This is not nothing more than conditioning from infancy ,so when they grow they will accept grooming by naked adult men as something normal .

Those mothers who exposed children to his should be penalized.

@RufustheSpeculatingreindeer " i can certainly envisage someone being told its ‘circus’ acts and ‘drag’ and not really putting two and two together, and then feeling unable to leave "

There's always the old text from Bunbury trick, requiring their presence urgently, or a look at their watch, with a sudden face palm about forgetting they had to meet someone, if they didn't have the guts to just walk out like they ought to have done.