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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Re: Starmer

233 replies

EpicChaos · 15/02/2023 22:12

I hope that starmer, having possibly wetted his finger and stuck it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing,following Sturgeons resignation, doesn't think, that if he starts to be a bit GC, that women will be keen to vote for him!
The man has already planted his flag and just like Sturgeon, he chose to plant it on the north face of the Eiger. More fool him! imo.

I've already seen the colours that he wears and they aren't green, purple and white!
Women don't owe him a damned thing!

OP posts:
Toseland · 15/02/2023 22:29

It's so sad, women need to have a party that will stand up for us and I don't think Labour will. More women should stand against MPs, form a protest party with Posie? I'd love for someone to stand against David Lammy :) 🦕🦖

FebName · 15/02/2023 23:29

I was hoping for a thread on Stammer! What is he going to do???

He MUST see how the wind is blowing now, surely???

donquixotedelamancha · 16/02/2023 00:50

I hope that starmer, having possibly wetted his finger and stuck it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing,following Sturgeons resignation, doesn't think, that if he starts to be a bit GC, that women will be keen to vote for him!

I bloody hope he does think that, it might persuade him to protect women's rights. This is too important, and too easy to lose, to want to punish people for having been wrong.

The other problem is that he will win anyway, it is desperately urgent that we make inroads into bringing Labour to it's senses.

Empowermenomore · 16/02/2023 00:59

well, nothing about standing up to Rosie Duffield bullying, nothing about the Cass report, no sign of meeting WPUK or any such women group, but already making his bed with Stonewall Chairman who is switching parties to get closer to steering the Labour Party to his fire...

not voting until ‘safe spaces’ are defined as single sex spaces according to biological sex not gender or grc

DemiColon · 16/02/2023 01:38

I don't think it's useful to be ideological about voting. It's a practical action, people need to be pragmatic. You vote for someone, one way or another.

That being said, the kinds of choices KS is making not only seem to say something unpleasant about his attachment to gender ideology, they seem to say quite a lot about what he thinks good governance and civil society is, and how he thinks party politics should function, and democracy more generally. And those are all pragmatic issues.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 10:43

DemiColon · 16/02/2023 01:38

I don't think it's useful to be ideological about voting. It's a practical action, people need to be pragmatic. You vote for someone, one way or another.

That being said, the kinds of choices KS is making not only seem to say something unpleasant about his attachment to gender ideology, they seem to say quite a lot about what he thinks good governance and civil society is, and how he thinks party politics should function, and democracy more generally. And those are all pragmatic issues.

I'm still not convinced I know where he ACTUALLY stands. I think a lot of negative stuff attributed to him is inferred. I'm still clinging to moments and inferring those moments could possibly be positives. Yesterday, for example, the firm statement that Labour will never ever be captured by narrow interests again, could apply to gender ideology.

Please write to him. Keep him straight and his head full of warnings. I am.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 10:45

I should say further, if you're a Tory supporter, you're unlikely to like him because he's not a Tory. But for those inclined to Labour, please write and write. I think Tory voters should write too, because he is going to be the next PM.

Chersfrozenface · 16/02/2023 10:47

Well, you can write, but you've no guarantee your letters will be read by or even reported to Starmer himself.

Abccde · 16/02/2023 10:50

I will happily vote for him as long as he doesn't bring in Self ID and ideally looks to tighten up the Equality Act.

I really don't like when other women should suggest who I should vote for.

What I absolutely will not vote for us another 13 years of what we have got now.

The harm that has been done to woman and children in the last 13 years is immeasurable.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 10:50

If I ever get a reply I'll let you know. I've only just started though. I sent it recorded delivery. More will follow.

KohlaParasaurus · 16/02/2023 10:51

I would be delighted to see Starmer change his tune on this issue. I have no admiration whatsoever for politicians who cling stubbornly to one position in the face of increasing evidence supporting a different position. I'll find it difficult to get past his silent approval of the misogynistic behaviour of some of his MPs, though.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 10:55

Abccde · 16/02/2023 10:50

I will happily vote for him as long as he doesn't bring in Self ID and ideally looks to tighten up the Equality Act.

I really don't like when other women should suggest who I should vote for.

What I absolutely will not vote for us another 13 years of what we have got now.

The harm that has been done to woman and children in the last 13 years is immeasurable.

The Tories are dead to me, even if they say the right things on gender. That doesn't counterbalance the harm they've done to Britain. I will never vote Tory again. And I've never said that about a political party before. I mean it too.

MarshaBradyo · 16/02/2023 10:57

He’d have to face the 100% believers in his party. Not sure he’s going to do much there.

Plus if SNP lose seats to Labour he may feel even more bolstered to go ahead.

I hope not, but unfortunately we’re not out of the woods yet.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 10:58

KohlaParasaurus · 16/02/2023 10:51

I would be delighted to see Starmer change his tune on this issue. I have no admiration whatsoever for politicians who cling stubbornly to one position in the face of increasing evidence supporting a different position. I'll find it difficult to get past his silent approval of the misogynistic behaviour of some of his MPs, though.

Shit, that just made think. I wrote to him about Lloyd Russell-Moyle and copied Moyle on it. I should have copied in Rosie Duffield and Miriam Cates too. Damn it.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 11:02

He’d have to face the 100% believers in his party. Not sure he’s going to do much there.

He did that on anti-semitism effectively. I used to see the most horrendous stuff in my Twitter feed, and it's almost all gone.

He'll never win with the 100% believers, but there will be believers who care about their paycheques more than challenging him, then there will be believers who saw what happened to Sturgeon and think "oops, the public are pissed" etc

At the end of the day, its voters he has to appeal to and I think he is very very aware if that fact. So we all need to keep on doing what we can when we can.

Floisme · 16/02/2023 11:10

I can't imagine being keen to vote Labour again. That ship has sailed and my respect and loyalty has gone down with it. (Excuse mixed metaphors.) I'm also pragmatic and would lend them my vote again if they changed course, it's just that I can't see myself ever thinking of them as 'my party' again.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 11:32

I felt that way under Corbyn with the anti-semitism, misogyny and online bullying. Except I couldn't even lend him my vote. I wasn't at a 'never Labour ever again' as I am for the Tories though. I will never ever ever lend the Tories a vote. Even pragmatically. Telling my MP 'I'll never vote Tory again" only means anything if I actually follow through. Even Corbyn didn't get me there.

MarshaBradyo · 16/02/2023 11:35

I’m not never Labour again but not keen on this iteration, the policies don’t work for me. Corbyn was a disaster but Starmer hasn’t won me back.

Re Starmer getting someone like David Lammy to toe the line we’ll see. First he actually has to change direction from off the fence and we have seen much at all.

It would have to be unequivocal and clear.

MarshaBradyo · 16/02/2023 11:36

Haven’t..

DemiColon · 16/02/2023 11:58

I don't care if some members of a party have some views I don't like. I think it's fine and even good for parties to allow some diversity of views. I might not vote for an individual I thought was wrong on something important, but that is different. I don't expect Starmer to make everyone agree. I would be much happier if he allowed MPs to say what they wanted and vote how they wanted and argue what they wanted on this.

The fact that he doesn't, and they have embraced the same approach in other areas around identity politics, is as significant to me as the embrace of gender ideology itself. It points to a significant capacity to govern in a bad way.

I'm also not convinced their fiscal policies and other social economic policies would be as different from the Tories as some seem to believe. So maybe that doesn't weigh with me as much.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 12:05

The fact that he doesn't, and they have embraced the same approach in other areas around identity politics, is as significant to me as the embrace of gender ideology itself. It points to a significant capacity to govern in a bad way.

This is true of the Tories too, with rockets on it.

With the exception of Corbyn, he didn't go as far as Johnson did. Literally purging the party of anyone who might disagree. All the decent Tories ousted for opposing him, leaving the Tories up the shit creek, without a paddle, in a boat burdened with idiots who can't form a rescue plan.

On Corbyn - I think that was a bold move, but controversial. But I think justified given the disrepute the party came into under Corbyn, and the risk Corbyn's presence could stir it up again.

Johnson's choices: self serving, damaging, fascistic. Unforgivable.

tresleches · 16/02/2023 12:15

Their Scottish leader said on Ch 4 news last night that they want to "humanise" (used this word twice, in lieu of clarity) gender ID but also look at single sex spaces. Because apparently these are compatible positions now.

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 12:22

tresleches · 16/02/2023 12:15

Their Scottish leader said on Ch 4 news last night that they want to "humanise" (used this word twice, in lieu of clarity) gender ID but also look at single sex spaces. Because apparently these are compatible positions now.

That's not going to stop me looking at individual voting records on the GRR and holding it against them at the next election.

Abccde · 16/02/2023 12:53

I get so so annoyed by the Scottish Labour leader.

He has got this one very very wrong. Its not that you can even argue that morally he did the right thing - he didn't. Not with the law that he voted to pass.

If I still lived in Scotland I could probably vote for a Westminster Labour MP, but I think in Holyrood elections I would have to spoil my vote. I wouldn't vote for any of them.

Abhannmor · 16/02/2023 13:43

Corbyn didn't expel members afaik. Not even obvious Tory warmongers like Blair or Mandelson. He was never leadership material. Too trusting. Many of his shadow cabinet 'colleagues' were unprincipled careerists. Like that ' fucking little wooden Thunderbird puppet ' *

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