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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Re: Starmer

233 replies

EpicChaos · 15/02/2023 22:12

I hope that starmer, having possibly wetted his finger and stuck it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing,following Sturgeons resignation, doesn't think, that if he starts to be a bit GC, that women will be keen to vote for him!
The man has already planted his flag and just like Sturgeon, he chose to plant it on the north face of the Eiger. More fool him! imo.

I've already seen the colours that he wears and they aren't green, purple and white!
Women don't owe him a damned thing!

OP posts:
howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 11:26

scratchedbymycat · 17/02/2023 11:18

He's a nasty, nasty piece of work.

I'm honestly baffled by the strong emotion in this. Why do you dislike him so intensely?

He's a danger to women. He refuses to listen to them and arrogantly assumes that he knows best. His 'focus group' to check out his male supremacy thinking was to ask his white, highly privileged wife and white, highly privileged teen daughter whether they agreed with him. He's destroyed the only viable challenge to the Tory party because of this arrogance. He's fucking the country over through his refusal to listen to people's very well thought through concerns. He said 'it should never be said that only women have a cervix' and feels that he, a man, has the right to tell women what they should and shouldn't say. He needs out of politics now. He's not fit to lead a scout group let alone a governing party.

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 11:29

twitterexile · 16/02/2023 16:41

As ever on here, any criticism of the LP/Starmer brings out 'but the Tories are so much worse' posters who are inexplicably still in thrall to the disaster that is the LP in 2023.
And those posters beavering away writing to Starmer to try and remind him that women are a sex class - why waste your time? This is a man who said on national tv that it is 'wrong' that only women have a cervix and that it 'shouldn't be said'. You will get nowhere. The LP is a dead duck.

Labour are a dead duck with a predicted 250seat majority at the next General Election.

www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 11:32

A few years ago, I would have been rejoicing at their lead. Now I see all the women being locked up with men in prison cells, the abolishment of rape crisis centres for women, the warping of statistics which might have shown how women are disadvantages in healthcare, the 'all female' short lists full of men etc. etc. I can't rejoice at that. I can't feel safe in a world where our 'leaders' consider that progress and judge themselves as morally superior for making it happen. I don't think some people have any idea where this ends.

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 11:35

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 11:32

A few years ago, I would have been rejoicing at their lead. Now I see all the women being locked up with men in prison cells, the abolishment of rape crisis centres for women, the warping of statistics which might have shown how women are disadvantages in healthcare, the 'all female' short lists full of men etc. etc. I can't rejoice at that. I can't feel safe in a world where our 'leaders' consider that progress and judge themselves as morally superior for making it happen. I don't think some people have any idea where this ends.

Can I just check this. Women are being locked up with men in prison cells now.
The current government is Tory. They are in charge of the prison system.
So I shouldn't vote Labour?

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 11:37

Floisme · 17/02/2023 08:07

I get that too twitterexile and see it all the time.
Me: 'I won't be voting Labour unless they can reassure me that they won't bring in self ID.'
Labour Poster(s): 'OMG how can you vote Tory!'
Or 'But what about the ....(insert a Tory policy).

What's happened to reading?

The UK parliamentary system is such that there are only two parties that have any chance of forming the next government (actually currently there is one party that has a greater than 99% chance, but lets ignore that for now). That being so, if you do not vote for one party, then whether you vote for, spoil your ballot or go to the pub you are helping the other party become the government.

Thelnebriati · 17/02/2023 11:48

if you do not vote for one party, then whether you vote for, spoil your ballot or go to the pub you are helping the other party become the government.

That's not true. I live in a safe seat with a margin of thousands. At the last election, women acted/voted tactically according to local conditions as well as their conscience. It would be good if you could give us some credit instead of assuming we are politically naive.

Floisme · 17/02/2023 11:53

Oh hello jgw1, once again you appear to have confused me with someone who is interested in having a conversation with you.

You have now used up your single, allotted reply. Good day to you.

Abhannmor · 17/02/2023 11:56

scratchedbymycat · 16/02/2023 16:27

Really!! The quip flew well past me then. (Sorry Andy).

Alexei also says Starmer wants to hand the baton to Wes Streeting ' who looks like his son - only made out of margarine.'

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 11:56

Floisme · 17/02/2023 11:53

Oh hello jgw1, once again you appear to have confused me with someone who is interested in having a conversation with you.

You have now used up your single, allotted reply. Good day to you.

Oh good another example of the left deplatforming those who disagree with them.

There was me thinking the point of a discussion board was to have a discussion.

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 11:59

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 11:35

Can I just check this. Women are being locked up with men in prison cells now.
The current government is Tory. They are in charge of the prison system.
So I shouldn't vote Labour?

No be ause this is the tip of the iceberg. Its not just about now. It about the future. Do you want a future where women's rights are reinstated or not? Ultimately though. You do what you want. I was explaining why I loathe KS not campaigning for votes for other parties.

Floisme · 17/02/2023 12:00

IcakethereforeIam · 17/02/2023 10:41

Talking of fucking little wooden Thunderbird puppet, I used to have a terrible crush on Virgil Tracy (sex on a stick). Even bearing that in mind, I couldn't vote for Starmer unless he makes an unequivocal statement on women's rights.

OMG I adored Virgil. All my friends liked Scott but Virgil had such big sad eyes, and he painted and played the piano....

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 12:01

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 11:59

No be ause this is the tip of the iceberg. Its not just about now. It about the future. Do you want a future where women's rights are reinstated or not? Ultimately though. You do what you want. I was explaining why I loathe KS not campaigning for votes for other parties.

Are women being locked up with men in prison now?

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 12:05

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 12:01

Are women being locked up with men in prison now?

Yes. And the Tory leadership are saying the things we'd need to hear to belive it possible that will change. KS isn't. But you're again missing the point I'm making. You do you with your vote. The try and have some respect for others doing them. You don't have to read my thoughts and agree with them but busy could try and stop badgering to apparently argue with a point I'm not making.

scratchedbymycat · 17/02/2023 12:06

I have to push back a little, and this possibly explains my willingness to try writing to him:

He's a danger to women. He refuses to listen to them and arrogantly assumes that he knows best.

He did a lot of seriously important work with the CPS on domestic violence. He worked very closely with victims of DV and really earned my respect there. In addition, he has also said: "It is my personal mission to tackle violence against women and girls. It is destroying lives and families. This government is failing. Labour would act to protect women."

His 'focus group' to check out his male supremacy thinking was to ask his white, highly privileged wife and white, highly privileged teen daughter whether they agreed with him.

This is completely irrational.

He's destroyed the only viable challenge to the Tory party because of this arrogance.

Corbyn? I honestly think people who think this country would ever elect someone like Corbyn to be PM are in their own echo-chamber fantasyland, parallel to the one that believes TWAW. I come from a family that have been staunch Labour for decades, and not one of them voted for Labour under Corbyn.

He's fucking the country over through his refusal to listen to people's very well thought through concerns.

How do you know he's not listening? He has stated that he knows for 99.9% of women this issue is about biological sex. He has said equality for women must not be compromised. I'm hopeful that his insistence that Labour will not be captured by narrow interests applies to the gender issue as much as anti-semitism. I am hopeful that the mess the SNP has got themselves into will spotlight the political costs.

I'm not ready to judge him for not coming roaring out because he also has to straddle tensions in his party, and he has to get elected. But that doesn't mean he's not listening. Gender issues are one of many desperately pressing issues, none of which can be dealt with unless they are elected.

He said 'it should never be said that only women have a cervix'

It would have been more prudent for him to say, "trans men also have a cervix" given public feeling. But this is an inconvenient fact. If the transman has a GRC, they are legally men, and they have a cervix. Which means, like it or not, legally some men can have a cervix. And KS is a barrister - he is going to be legally accurate. I do not think that quote is conclusive evidence of real bias. I suspect, if pushed on this, and asked if transmen without a GRC were men, he'd probably reply something along the lines of 'legally, No'. Because that would be accurate too.

and feels that he, a man, has the right to tell women what they should and shouldn't say.

I think the phrase 'it should never be said...' was general and based on legal accuracy. It certainly wasn't specifically directed at women.

He needs out of politics now. He's not fit to lead a scout group let alone a governing party.

I think millions will disagree with you at the next election.

IcakethereforeIam · 17/02/2023 12:10

@Floisme Virgil had the coolest Thunderbird and operated all of the equipment, while Scott just got hysterical at his mobile command centre (sat behind a desk). I think there was a spark between Virgil and Lady P too.

My ward is marginal between LD and Con., currently Con. Labour don't stand a chance her. My MP has said nothing wrt GI, women's rights. I think I could spoil my ballot with a clean conscience.

<thinks>

Phew, good recovery, no-one will notice my derail!

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 12:17

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 12:05

Yes. And the Tory leadership are saying the things we'd need to hear to belive it possible that will change. KS isn't. But you're again missing the point I'm making. You do you with your vote. The try and have some respect for others doing them. You don't have to read my thoughts and agree with them but busy could try and stop badgering to apparently argue with a point I'm not making.

Thank you for clarifying.
The Minister responsible for prisons could introduce a policy today that said that women are not to be locked up with men in prisons. Which would seem to me, if one cared deeply about these things as many people on these threads do a good reason for not voting for the party that Minister belonged to.

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 12:29

scratchedbymycat · 17/02/2023 12:06

I have to push back a little, and this possibly explains my willingness to try writing to him:

He's a danger to women. He refuses to listen to them and arrogantly assumes that he knows best.

He did a lot of seriously important work with the CPS on domestic violence. He worked very closely with victims of DV and really earned my respect there. In addition, he has also said: "It is my personal mission to tackle violence against women and girls. It is destroying lives and families. This government is failing. Labour would act to protect women."

His 'focus group' to check out his male supremacy thinking was to ask his white, highly privileged wife and white, highly privileged teen daughter whether they agreed with him.

This is completely irrational.

He's destroyed the only viable challenge to the Tory party because of this arrogance.

Corbyn? I honestly think people who think this country would ever elect someone like Corbyn to be PM are in their own echo-chamber fantasyland, parallel to the one that believes TWAW. I come from a family that have been staunch Labour for decades, and not one of them voted for Labour under Corbyn.

He's fucking the country over through his refusal to listen to people's very well thought through concerns.

How do you know he's not listening? He has stated that he knows for 99.9% of women this issue is about biological sex. He has said equality for women must not be compromised. I'm hopeful that his insistence that Labour will not be captured by narrow interests applies to the gender issue as much as anti-semitism. I am hopeful that the mess the SNP has got themselves into will spotlight the political costs.

I'm not ready to judge him for not coming roaring out because he also has to straddle tensions in his party, and he has to get elected. But that doesn't mean he's not listening. Gender issues are one of many desperately pressing issues, none of which can be dealt with unless they are elected.

He said 'it should never be said that only women have a cervix'

It would have been more prudent for him to say, "trans men also have a cervix" given public feeling. But this is an inconvenient fact. If the transman has a GRC, they are legally men, and they have a cervix. Which means, like it or not, legally some men can have a cervix. And KS is a barrister - he is going to be legally accurate. I do not think that quote is conclusive evidence of real bias. I suspect, if pushed on this, and asked if transmen without a GRC were men, he'd probably reply something along the lines of 'legally, No'. Because that would be accurate too.

and feels that he, a man, has the right to tell women what they should and shouldn't say.

I think the phrase 'it should never be said...' was general and based on legal accuracy. It certainly wasn't specifically directed at women.

He needs out of politics now. He's not fit to lead a scout group let alone a governing party.

I think millions will disagree with you at the next election.

And those people who are women are able to disagree with me in elections because the suffragettes worked very hard to attain sex based rights. I think they'd be horrified at rhe current direction of travel. It is completely irrational to consider that he is fighting for sex based rights if he is also defining sex as something other than biological. The 99.9% argument is absolute spin. He has also been aggressive to women who define a woman as an adult human female. Those two stances are not compatible and if you also factor in his cervix comment then it is clear that the definition of woman for him is identity based and not biological. What do you mean legal based? What legal argument is there for including men in a definition of woman? Do you mean a GRC? That defines some ethereal identity not the biological experience of being a woman. There is a campaign underway to better clarify the concept of sex in the equality act as clearly men should not be considered women under that act or it is nor protecting women's rights. Can you tell me what you think is illogical about the focus group statement? He checked out his thinking about TWAW by asking his daughter and wife what they thought. Hardly due diligence. No. Not Corbyn. Starmer. Glossing over this leader's deficits by highlighting the previous leader's ones is a rather obvious strategy.

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 12:33

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 12:17

Thank you for clarifying.
The Minister responsible for prisons could introduce a policy today that said that women are not to be locked up with men in prisons. Which would seem to me, if one cared deeply about these things as many people on these threads do a good reason for not voting for the party that Minister belonged to.

KS will push ahead with self ID which seems a good reason to not vote for a party he leads.

Policies fail or thrive in the context of public opinion. The public have sadly been caught in part because of male supremacists like KS. We are still in a place where people need the scales to fall from their eyes. Ideally this will happen ASAP and as a result KS will be banished from politics. This will leave the politically homeless masses with a hope for a better future.

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 12:36

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 12:33

KS will push ahead with self ID which seems a good reason to not vote for a party he leads.

Policies fail or thrive in the context of public opinion. The public have sadly been caught in part because of male supremacists like KS. We are still in a place where people need the scales to fall from their eyes. Ideally this will happen ASAP and as a result KS will be banished from politics. This will leave the politically homeless masses with a hope for a better future.

Is KS the Minister for prisons currently?
Given there is apparently a problem with women being locked up with men in prisons at present, I would have thought it would be best to direct campaigning at the Minister in charge who can actually effect change now, rather than waiting at least another two years to have this serious problem addressed.

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 12:47

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 12:36

Is KS the Minister for prisons currently?
Given there is apparently a problem with women being locked up with men in prisons at present, I would have thought it would be best to direct campaigning at the Minister in charge who can actually effect change now, rather than waiting at least another two years to have this serious problem addressed.

Irrelevant to the point I was making.

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 13:00

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 12:47

Irrelevant to the point I was making.

@howmanybicycles you aren't concerned about women being locked up with men in prisons. Many on these threads seem to be, but in the wider world it is not high on the list of most people's concerns, perfectly natural to be in the latter group.

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 13:05

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 13:00

@howmanybicycles you aren't concerned about women being locked up with men in prisons. Many on these threads seem to be, but in the wider world it is not high on the list of most people's concerns, perfectly natural to be in the latter group.

That is a very, very unpleasant thing to say. People's solutions to problems may be different to yours but that does not mean that they don't care. What a nasty thing to say.

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 13:09

howmanybicycles · 17/02/2023 13:05

That is a very, very unpleasant thing to say. People's solutions to problems may be different to yours but that does not mean that they don't care. What a nasty thing to say.

@howmanybicycles you do care about women being locked up with men in prison, but not enough to say anything about the person who could change that situation or to direct a campaign at that person to change the situation?

Floisme · 17/02/2023 13:13

@Floisme Virgil had the coolest Thunderbird and operated all of the equipment, while Scott just got hysterical at his mobile command centre (sat behind a desk). I think there was a spark between Virgil and Lady P too.

Definitely a spark. Yeah Thunderbird 2 was the best - it did real, proper work while Scott swanned around in a big, shiny, flying penis.

Chersfrozenface · 17/02/2023 13:16

jgw1 · 17/02/2023 13:09

@howmanybicycles you do care about women being locked up with men in prison, but not enough to say anything about the person who could change that situation or to direct a campaign at that person to change the situation?

The current government is already acting.

25th January 2023

www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-changes-to-transgender-prisoner-policy-framework