Re: Starmer

[EpicChaos]

I hope that starmer, having possibly wetted his finger and stuck it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing,following Sturgeons resignation, doesn't think, that if he starts to be a bit GC, that women will be keen to vote for him!
The man has already planted his flag and just like Sturgeon, he chose to plant it on the north face of the Eiger. More fool him! imo.

I've already seen the colours that he wears and they aren't green, purple and white!
Women don't owe him a damned thing!

Seeing as this board is called “Feminism: sex and gender” it’s a bit rich to accuse us of “going on and on about gender”. If Starmer wasn’t so disappointing on self ID the discussions on here would be very different.

TBH I think people are continuously amazed that he continues on the same course. With each thing, you imagine, well, now he must see the issue. But he keeps on with the same stuff. The fact that he seems like a reasonably intelligent, nice person makes it more remarkable.

I think it would be better named Starmer and Gender.

Is it me or are even the Labour Women's Declaration beginning to lose patience? I've not seen them say anything outright rebellious yet but their retweets are getting more and more interesting e.g. Decca Aitkenhead's interview with Angela Rayner (Sunday Times today) that very politely and even regretfully skewers Rayner to the floor. I don't think LWD would have posted that a year ago.

And then you've got Joan Smith (not sure of her connection with LWD but she always retweets them) barely disguising her contempt when she talks about Starmer and posting more and more photos of birds and the river, almost visibly trying to calm herself down.

These women aren't keyboard gobshites, they've given years of service to Labour and if even they're starting to lose their cool then I think things could get interesting.

I live in a Liverpool constituenecy that was once represented by Labour MP Louise Ellman. I'm also a now ex Labour party member. She was bullied out of that constituency by some people with very big axes to grind, and deep hatred of the fact that she was a 'Friend of Israel'. She was replaced with a Momentum shoe-in in the form of Kim Johnson. Louise Ellman was just one victim of the local CLP purges that went on under Corbyn.

The moment my views on Corbyn changed came as a result of watching clips of some local CLP meetings, at which he was present, in which MPs were publicly abused and humiliated. I waited for a swift rsponse and rebuttal from him, which sadly never came. He over-saw, stood by and watched, as hard working local MPs were hounded and bullied, and he said nothing.

This is a response from KS office to one of the automated emails I sent.

“Thank you for your recent email. Our office has received a large number of emails on trans rights and legislation in the Scottish Parliament to update their Gender Recognition Act in recent weeks.

We know that many xxxxx have strong feelings about these matters, often due to their personal experiences. Keir believes that we need to work through these issues with respect and sensitivity.

To be clear on Keir’s position, we are providing anyone who has written to us on these matters with the same response.

Labour is the party of equality. We want trans people to be treated fairly and we also support the protection of certain spaces that are for biological women.

That’s why Labour supports modernisation of the Gender Recognition Act and the protection of the Equality Act, including its provision for single-sex spaces.

It’s right that we consider how to include trans people fairly in ways that do not disadvantage biological women.

Labour believes that the current process to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate is out-of-date. It asks people to go through a very arduous process and obtain the consent of their husband or wife (if they have one) to change gender.

All the political parties agreed that the process needed modernising, but the Conservatives dropped their plans, and now seem to be playing political games with it. Meanwhile, trans people still face discrimination and are still faced with the same outdated process.

A future Labour government would address this with a better process to support people who identify as a gender that’s different to the one they were born in.

We would also uphold the Equality Act that allows for certain spaces for biological women. The vast majority of the time, trans women are rightly treated with respect and compassion as women. However, the law rightly protects some spaces for biological women, and allows for trans women to be excluded from those spaces in specific circumstances. The Equality Act makes provision for this when it is a ‘proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim’.

Labour is steadfast in our commitment to tackle violence against women and girls and advocate for women’s rights. We created the law that protects single-sex spaces for biological women - and we will always keep those protections.

For example, it’s right that women leaving domestic violence are able to seek safety and security in a women-only refuge - and this is recognised in law.

Now is a time when we need to see all politicians behaving in a sensitive and grownup way about these serious issues. We can only find solutions to these issues by bringing people together, not pitting them against each other.

Thanks again for your message.

Best wishes,”

It asks people to go through a very arduous process and obtain the consent of their husband or wife (if they have one) to change gender.

I'm pretty sure that that's incorrect.

There's the spousal exit clause, @tinselangel knows the in and outs of that. If he's suggesting getting rid of that then he's out of order. As I understand it, it protects a non-consenting partner from suddenly being in a same sex marriage.

As I understand it, it protects a non-consenting partner from suddenly being in a same sex marriage.

That was my impression, that a partner can have the marriage annulled, easily, with no fault attached.

Some of that suggests a slight more affirmative shift towards protected categories for biological sex, and other sections are just patronising and dismissive.

"Now is a time when we need to see all politicians behaving in a sensitive and grownup way about these serious issues. We can only find solutions to these issues by bringing people together, not pitting them against each other"

Thanks again for your message.

It also doesn't deal with the issue of child transition - other than an implicit suggestion that they would support it.

I agree with you all, Icake, Sinner and Not.

I immediately thought that the marriage part was wrong and that it didn’t mention children. Those bits of dis-misinformation made me doubt the rest.
Although I was glad biological women were mentioned, though I would question what other sort are there?

Oh please. You campaign for a different candidate and expect to remain in your own party. In what universe does that happen?

Imagine if Corbyn just said ' ah well at least they didn't work for the Hunt himself so that's cool'
That would really go down a treat with the local Labour Party.

Thanks for posting that email response ThisIsMyGCname. Do I detect a slight shift in tone around single sex spaces? Which is welcome as far as it goes but what I'm really looking for is some action e.g. talking in public to the Labour Women's Declaration - does anyone know if they were invited to the event at the weekend?

That's not the worst response I've seen.

He's going to need to do more to actually support women's rights, rather than just 'ceasing to shit on us', though.

Engaging with groups in His Own Bloody Party would be quite a good start.

Engaging with groups in His Own Bloody Party would be quite a good start.

Yup. The day he does that is the day I'll start taking serious notice.

I spoke to the Labour Women’s Declaration at the WPUK conference a few weekends back. They said KS had said he didn’t know they existed?!

I honestly don't know how they stand it.

Although does that mean they were allowed at the event this time? (Hopeful)

Nah - on second thoughts, forget I asked that. It's time to have a little self respect.

This is how I feel too

It also says that trans people are still facing discrimination but fails to state that so are women.

Thank you for your recent email. Our office has received a large number of emails on trans rights and legislation in the Scottish Parliament to update their Gender Recognition Act in recent weeks

And there's the problem that will never be fixed. Women are contacting Starmer's office about women's rights but are totally erased from the conversation. Despite a bit of lip service in an attempt to shut us up, we are not a consideration at all. Only one issue matters to Labour. I have no idea why anyone is giving them the benefit of the doubt. What's the point of voting for them in a forlorn hope they'll change if they get into office when they won't?

What's the point of voting for them in a forlorn hope they'll change if they get into office when they won't?
I can't speak for anyone else, seahorses, but what I'm doing right now is watching what they say, what they do and who they talk to. I'll make up my mind about voting when they put out their manifesto.
Even if I had decided, there's no way I'd declare my hand this point. I don't see any point in telling them with 18 months to go, 'Whatever you do I'm going to vote for you anyway.' My vote is just about the only bargaining chip I've got.

ThisIsMyGCname I misread your post last night and thought you'd talked to LWD at the Labour event in Scotland, not at the WPUK conference, so my reply was a bit nonsense, sorry!