Re: Starmer

[EpicChaos]

I hope that starmer, having possibly wetted his finger and stuck it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing,following Sturgeons resignation, doesn't think, that if he starts to be a bit GC, that women will be keen to vote for him!
The man has already planted his flag and just like Sturgeon, he chose to plant it on the north face of the Eiger. More fool him! imo.

I've already seen the colours that he wears and they aren't green, purple and white!
Women don't owe him a damned thing!

Like that ' fucking little wooden Thunderbird puppet ' *

Who was that? Andy Burnam by any chance? (Trying to work out who looked like a thunderbird 😂).

The fact that MP's, MSP's are so vague is what is really frustrating. They are clinging to this 'no debate' even though it's now the avoidance strategy. Much of the press have decided to throw their lot in with GC even the Guardian's having a wobble. Things have now changed because the public have been given the stark reality of self-id.

Labour might be looking at Wales and hoping they can keep the lid on anything negative so that they can spout 'wonderful progressive Wales, that's what we want'. What on earth prevents Welsh people from kicking up a fuss. I know they don't have prisons but they do have schools and they do have gender indoctrination. Would love to know what's going on, Cardiff young, university, obvious but what about the very traditional areas. I believe Mark Drakeford is looking at GRR, does he expect a different result??

Not outright, but those who had to install panic alarms and have bodyguards for protection couldn't really safely stay. That's a form of expulsion - 'constructive dismissal' perhaps.

It's the history of this that makes me think Starmer needs to be a lot more openly supportive of Duffield and others like her.

I would love to vote Labour. But I can't.

Meanwhile other people completely the other side on gender issues are chanting "fuck Kier Starmer"

Ultimately the job of any politician in a democracy is to listen/ understand different perspectives. Alas in trying to maintain balance/ moderation you can end up alienating a lot of people

Have you tried @Chersfrozenface ? I wrote with no response but received responses about other issues. This has made me wonder if his post is being tampered with! I also assume my name is now on a list somewhere.

No it was about Mr Starmer !

Really!! The quip flew well past me then. (Sorry Andy).

As ever on here, any criticism of the LP/Starmer brings out 'but the Tories are so much worse' posters who are inexplicably still in thrall to the disaster that is the LP in 2023.
And those posters beavering away writing to Starmer to try and remind him that women are a sex class - why waste your time? This is a man who said on national tv that it is 'wrong' that only women have a cervix and that it 'shouldn't be said'. You will get nowhere. The LP is a dead duck.

If I were KS, I would go full-on TWAW, propose amending the GRA in line with the GRR but bring down the minimum age to 12, propose amending the EA to remove sex as a protected characteristic and propose repeal of the same-sex marriage act.

This might seem counter-intuitive but it should ensure that Labour loses the next GE and he could sit back and watch the Tories wallow in the ongoing clusterfuck.

Genuine question- what would it take for you to not vote Tory?

They have been the party of government for 13 years. 13 bloody years.

I don't pretend that I am comfortable voting for Labour and I may not do it yet, but really, it's as if some people have been living in an alternative reality for the last 13 years, which have been the most damaging and divisive of my lifetime.

You have rather proven my point that any criticism of Labour brings the 'but the Tories are worse!' response.
Where did I say I voted Tory?
I am an ex LP member who will never vote Labour again. Ever. This does not automatically mean that I will vote Tory. In the last election I spoiled my ballot with a feminist sticker and will probably do so next year too.

I get that too twitterexile and see it all the time.
Me: 'I won't be voting Labour unless they can reassure me that they won't bring in self ID.'
Labour Poster(s): 'OMG how can you vote Tory!'
Or 'But what about the ....(insert a Tory policy).

What's happened to reading?

The fact that all the parties except the Tories (although TM was going to bring in self-I'd) have been captured, plus the fact that the Tories are crap on pretty much every other level, leaves me seriously consider if I should even bother voting.

And yes, I am one of those people writing letters. But what's the alternative?

FWIW, I come from a country where people are threatened with violence if they don't support the right party, so not voting is a very very big deal to me.

Similarly, people in my country wouldn't dare put their name to a letter to a politician that complains about anything. That's dangerous too. It constantly strikes me how, what is considered a fruitless pathetic gesture here, could earn you a vicious beating elsewhere. I think that's worthy of a bit of thought too.

It will be very interesting to see what Starmer does now. I hope that with rapist gender now out there actually some of the TWAW true believers will have to back pedal a bit. I think its important to bear in mind that many want to think of themselves as doing the right thing and supporting the most vulnerable. Everything that has happened in Scotland recently has made it almost impossible (for most people) to continue with the previous approach. For example, I have a number of friends who went along with all the TWAW, scowled when I asked what is the difference with Rachel Dolezal etc, wouldn't ever actually think about it properly, but would really struggle to say that Isla Bryson should go to a women's prison. For the first time in years we will actually be able to start having sensible conversations about this stuff without anyone who disagrees being dismissed as a bigot. And the more that happens the less people like Starmer will worry about losing votes or being cancelled because of this nonsense.

I would not say this is quite the same. BJ certainly wanted to call the shots anddemanded personal loyalty, but I don't think there was the same kind of demonization of those who disagreed. I also think looking for some party unity on something like Brexit, which needed to be acted upon once the vote had happened, is not the same as completely shutting down discussion of a contentious social change. The latter is almost the definition of a moral/ethical question that has to be worked through to find an appropriate direction.

In general I think party politics have become too centralized, which is one reason why a second house is really important, but the tendency to try and tar dissenting views as racists, homophobes, etc, and deplatform speech as "violence" is a particular problem of the left. And identity politics is absolutely a problem of the left. Conservatives have been pretty lukewarm about it all along, which is why they get accused of being the wrong kind of black people and so on.

Thinking about it, I find KS's position weird.

He is too authoritarian on this, but he also can't seem to control his party where he needs to.

I'm very sympathetic to the fact that it's kind of an impossible job. Which is maybe where the leader just really needs some political nous and vision.

Once these social changes are introduced they are NEVER rolled back. I think you had better get used to living in a dystopia for ever if Labour or a left wing coalition are elected. I can stand ap few more years of the Tories if that's what it takes to bring Labour to its senses.

Talking of fucking little wooden Thunderbird puppet, I used to have a terrible crush on Virgil Tracy (sex on a stick). Even bearing that in mind, I couldn't vote for Starmer unless he makes an unequivocal statement on women's rights.

Hah, exactly!

Once these social changes are introduced they are NEVER rolled back.

Apparently that applies to Brexit too. Not even KS will go there despite clear evidence it was a colossal mistake.

Yep especially to top one but Starmer weak on second too

Labour has been out so long they are politics by focus group. There’s no vision just an eye on keeping various factions happy

I hope the gender issue gets them too as it did Sturgeon and they finally have to change or lose

Once you've redefined 'single sex' to effectively mean mixed sex, you can then spin your male supremacy lies far and wide. Starmer is killing the LP. He's a nasty, nasty piece of work.

He's a nasty, nasty piece of work.

I'm honestly baffled by the strong emotion in this. Why do you dislike him so intensely?

I don't think that's the intended meaning though, I think they intend to carve out a way to justify female single sex spaces while pushing gender self ID (at least on the basis of this statement - no doubt it will change). I look forward to the verbal gymnastics in attempting to articulate that in a coherent manner...

Even then, it doesn't begin to deal with sports etc, which is why i think it's just another provisional holding place until they realise they actually need a policy