India Willoughby, Question Time Thu 2 Feb 2240

[Consufed]

India Willoughby is going to be on Question Time tonight. BBC1 10.40pm.

I just watched QT. I've also been on my work twitter account this morning. I must say that the account of QT on this thread and what I have seen myself differ. IW in fact had a lot of sympathy from the QT audience, much more than Ella did. Ella didn't make her point clearly - that it isn't possible to change sex. She got a lot of boos - IW didn't. And the Yellow Blouse woman (although I 100% agree with her) only has a smattering of clapping. The later commentators (cord blazer man and the young woman in the grey jumper etc ) who are all commenting about the poor trans people being persecuted, get far more applause

My non GC twitter account is not mocking IW at all - there is lots of sympathy for her.

For me, it beggars belief that it's even a question whether men can change sex, that men can be in women's spaces and that IW is taken seriously at all. But it remains that although this Board (and me) has its view, the world still has another one. (and why I still have to maintain 2 twitter accounts)

The fact that Willoughby was asking which prison Willoughby should be placed in suggests to me that subconsciously Willoughby relates far more to the male rapist than to the women who were raped. Everything about Willoughby's behaviour slaps of male entitlement.

Iw is not very bright

I’d love to be a MERFmaid

🧜🏽‍♀️🧜🏼 I currently have shortish hair.
Am I a MERF-nonbinary then?

Does make me wonder if the police will change tact after the latest debarcle when policing Posies events.

Also if there will be as many protesters.

We wernt the only ones watching last night.

IW is a racist. I’m surprised at question time.

🤦‍♀️

so why did she state clearly “ I am a biological woman” and when she was in big brother did she literally shout at people “ I am a woman”

she also said the surgery she had was not any worse than going to a dentist . What sort of message does that give to young people .

the weird thing is “ she “ hates the group of people that allegedly she is part of .

sorry fear still makes me use “ she”

Challenge her to have a discussion with sir Robert Winston .

Wow, I've just been reading The National's take on this programme. It's all "India Willoughby thinks this," "India Willoughby thinks that", "the audience were so biased".... No bias in this article, obviously!

@Boiledbeetle not sure if you realise that's a parody account?

This topic just like the twittersphere is a bit of an echo chamber.

It's easy to forget in the real world there are lots of confused/ misinformed people. And obviously the TRAs.

Is this a parody account?

To be strictly accurate what IW said when responding to the woman in yellow was 'l'm biological. I'm a woman.' Which makes as much sense as India's comment about being sent to prison if India were raped on a night out.

I watched that bit again.
India actually says.
"I am biological. I am a woman".

But on first hearing it- it did sound like

" I am a biological woman."

Then later says I am a biological woman, shouting over someone else’s point.

Burn millions of medical and science textbooks as they’re all wrong!

India has claimed to be a biological woman, i'm quite certain. Probably thought it would look absolutely barking if said on QT, so hedged a bit.

As for alerting the police to a Posie Parker event, you can't really pay for this kind of advertising.

I'm sure India doesn't give a fuck that they are actually making things worse for trans people.

It's all for the back claps.

So India is trans and a biological woman. Doesn't that make India a trans man ( or transman)?

Quite!

IF we were to take the transgenderist position that ‘biological sex’ and ‘gender identity’ are two separate things, and those two different things can be mismatched inside one person (the current definition of being transgender, and the basis of the new ‘Gender Incongruence’ medical diagnosis)

and IF we were to agree with them that ‘male’ &’ female’ refer to sex and ‘woman’ & ‘man’ refer the completely separate concept of gender (because this is the only way in which India’s ‘tall/old/black women, trans is just another adjective!’ can stand up without it needing to be a magical adjective that transforms the following noun into it’s total opposite eg the ‘feline dog’ example from upthread)…

Then the logical conclusion is that trans and cis are superfluous (because we already have enough words to cover sex & gender as two distinct concepts) and thus we can happily discard ‘cis’.

Because following the trans ideological argument of sex/gender being separate all the way to the end results in (drum roll!)…

instead of ‘ciswomen or ‘cisgender women’
we can just use ‘female women’!
instead of ‘transwomen’ or ‘transgender women’
we can just use ‘male women’!
instead of ‘cisman’ or ‘cisgender man’
we can just use ‘male men!
instead of ‘transman’ ‘transgender man’
we can just use ‘female men’!

That India is forever wanging on about having an ‘F’ on India’s documents illustrates that trans activists know that the ‘sex and gender are different’ argument is a good way to get the masses nodding along and nominally accepting transgender people as a concept, but that allowing people the space and time to really think about what that difference IS ruins the whole thing.

Because if sex and gender ARE truly different, then we can just carry having same sex spaces & services for female people and ‘male women’ are as irrelevant to those female spaces as ‘male men’ are.

And single sex spaces according to sex is TRANSPHOBIA! So the ideologues have to move the goalposts a bit by saying ‘sex and gender are two different things, but GENDER is the important bit, not sex’ and that doesn’t fly for more than about half a minute because most of us are pretty sure we don’t HAVE a gender identity (because the gender that feminists are rightly critical of refers to sexist stereotypes, not internal lady-feelz)

And adding the T to the LGB and then trying to swap the sex and gender hierarchy over to please the T is what has caused Stonewall’s Massive Headache, because they’ve non consensually rebranded homosexual people as ‘homogenderist’ overnight which is a) a bit of a surprise to homosexuals and b) fucking ridiculous because why would male homosexuals have risked criminal charges, incarceration and chemical castration if shacking up with a biological lassie with a mascara moustache and a really tight sports bra was a viable option?

And why would female homosexuals have risked family ostracisation, public ridicule and losing custody of their own children if a chap in a blouse and pair of Deirdre Barlow-esque spectacles was a compatible option for one half of a lesbian relationship?

AND WHY DID THEY ALL HAVE TO FIGHT FOR SAME SEX MARRIAGE IF SEX WASN’T THE THING THAT DEFINED GAYNESS ANYWAY?

It turns out that it’s not really possible to elevate gender over sex without alienating the LGB…

So that’s where we are now and why we are seeing males who already say they are women making this new, recent attempt at a language grab for ‘female’.

And it’s true, that ‘male women’ can get an F on their passport with just a deed poll and a note from a GP. They can get the female number code on a driving license with just a deedpoll and a written request for change, no doctors note at all.

And the ‘Gender Recognition Certificate’ functions to change a persons legal sex - which includes changing the sex marker on some historical documents (including birth certificate) so having ‘gender’ in the name was always a massive red herring.

So nope, not having it.

Sex is physical, biological.
Humans can’t change sex.

Gender is largely outdated sexist stereotypes relating to how the sexes should look and behave, but there is (probably) some ye olde biological component to sex behaviour differences that relates to evolutionary biology and reproduction eg women tend to be less selfish than men because the human race would die out if we all just upped and walked out on our babies.
That women as a sex class may have a ancient genetic propensity towards not being fighty, rapey, feckless dickheads because: babies (!) does not however, oblige individual, modern day women to have children or be selfless.

It certainly doesn’t oblige us to Be Kind and Budge Up and make more room in for men.

And that includes the men who give themselves stereotypically female names.

You are quite right, tinysoxx. A couple of minutes later she goes further and whilst the Conservative Scotland minister John Lamont is speaking says loudly 'I'm a biological woman!' in an aggrieved tone.

IW is about as biologically woman as a box of Daz biological powder.

I'd love to see IW on a QT panel with Robert Winston. I think IW would combust.

🙊

I wonder what these two are trying to achieve? Kellie Jay makes contact with the local police as part of her event planning process, so the police will already be in attendence. I’m sure they’ll deal with any ‘literal’ annihilation if and when required.

Besides that, how do these AntiFa types justify tattling to their uniformed arm of the evil oppressor state?

‘ACAB but can you please, please come and tell this tiny middle aged lady off for us? We’re feeling very triggered and our emotional support kitten lives at our Nan’s house, which is a bit too far away to walk and we can’t afford an Uber’

Sorry, I don't think your assessment of the audience reaction is strictly accurate. I have just watched it all back. This is how it goes:

Jenny Gilful SNP - speaking about s35 mostly.

NO AUDIENCE REACTION

India Willoughby - responds to JG's points.

NO AUDIENCE REACTION

Fiona Bruce asks IW to answer the question about safeguarding women.

IW - Women's prison not the WI. If I was raped, which prison would I go to. Best person for the best prison.

NO AUDIENCE REACTION

Ella Whelan - JG hasn't answered the question. Is Adam Graham a man or a woman?

EW GETS A CLAP FOR THIS QUESTION

JG - Fillibusters about "the individual". Doesn't answer.

EW - You still haven't answered my Q.

JG - Yes I have.

AUDIENCE JEERS

FB - One more chance to JG to answer the Q

JG - This individual is a rapist.

BIG PROTESTING NOISES FROM AUDIENCE

EW - Sex is real and irrefutable.

BIG CLAP FROM AUDIENCE

EW - If politicians can't deal in reality, why should we believe them on anything. We haven't talked about women. Women are paying for these decisions.

BIG CLAP FROM AUDIENCE

IW - It's not TW doing the attacking, it's predatory men.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE FROM AUDIENCE

IW - rant about cannot help how you are born.

NO AUDIENCE REACTION

EW - People are generally liberal minded, but don't want to be forced to say things that aren't true.

BIG CLAP FROM AUDIENCE

IW - you are dragging discussion into the gutter. Chipping away at trans people.

NO AUDIENCE REACTION

EW - Anyone who's seen your twitter account can tell you about the gutter.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE.

Audience member - supportive trans comment.

NO AUDIENCE REACTION

Audience member - I'm a psychotherapist. Rattle rattle. Support young people.

ABOUT 3 PEOPLE CLAP.

Yellow dress lady - Women have to be safe.

BIG CLAP FROM AUDIENCE

Yellow dress lady - you can't change sex.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE

IW - There's hardly any trans people. This is just like the 1970s WRT gay/black people.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE

EW/Yellow dress - that's a cheap shot. Remind IW about comments on twitter to a black woman.

IW - explains the twitter comment.

NO AUDIENCE REACTION

John Lamont (Tory MP) - invoked s35 because don't think GRR has necessary safeguarding.

BIG APPLAUSE

JL - Very serious that we had to take the unprecedented s35 action. Scots rushed the GRR through.

APPLAUSE

Ian Murray (Labour MSP) - s35 should only be invoked after both sides try to resolve issue first. Both sides failed to do this. We support GRR reform, but introduced amendment to exclude convicted people that was voted down. Rapists should not be in women's prisons regardless of who they are.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE

Audience man - Good, right and proper for Isla Bryson to call herself a woman. No woman was at risk in Corton Vale. Need to have faith in SPS.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE

Young woman in audience - This is distracting from important issues like economy. Trans people suffer abuse.

LOUD APPLAUSE

Young man in audience - LGBT people abused forever. No different now.

LOUD APPLAUSE

JG - Govt stoking a culture war. S35 bad. Govt should have raised concerns during passing of bill. We will now work with them to resolve the issues.

NO APPLAUSE

JL - We have concerns. Wider implications. Eg, women's refuges.

EW - Reason this is important is because sex cannot change. I'm the only one on this panel who thinks this.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE

EW - the political class's way of talking about this does not reflect the common sense of the nation.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE

EW - It's about understanding what's true and false in society, and how we pass that on to our children.

BRIEF MIXTURE OF BOOS AND APPLAUSE

EW - Facts are important. If we let go of facts, it's bad for our trust in politics.

BIG CLAP FROM AUDIENCE

IW - This is like what was said about gays in the 1970s being rehashed.

RIPPLE OF APPLAUSE.

END OF DISCUSSION.

Ella certainly did not get a lot of boos. At one point, briefly, when she mentioned what we teach our children about truth. Otherwise, she had a lot of audience support. India had hardly any audience support.