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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

India Willoughby, Question Time Thu 2 Feb 2240

710 replies

Consufed · 02/02/2023 08:39

India Willoughby is going to be on Question Time tonight. BBC1 10.40pm.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
MmePoppySeedDefage · 03/02/2023 13:46

QT audiences are very carefully chosen to be representative of the population as a whole.

I wonder if anyone at the BBC will notice that there was a deafening silence after India's pronouncements and warm applause when others spoke against India's points...

I wonder if anyone else will notice, too.

nilsmousehammer · 03/02/2023 13:46

WinterTrees · 03/02/2023 13:18

Yes!
It's so interesting when India makes these sweeping generalisations that only serve to reveal India's own ignorance, prejudice and rank misogyny. Like when India said that everyone assumes that MN is for discussions about prams and nappies or something.

India has not the slightest inkling of what women's lives are.

It's always the terra nullis thing.

Women are things to a misogynist. Blank, empty little cyphers, and anything they think is obviously all about men (or babies), because what else is there for them to think about? And any space they have or resource they have is just wasted brownfield of no importance or relevance, much better taken over to be useful to men.

One of the rules of misogyny: if it isn't useful to men it's pointless (and men taking it over and doing something useful with it is a positive.)

This is what has always confused women about the ideology: how can men insist they are women and joining womenhood when there is no joining involved, no sisterhood or wish to be connected in any way. It isn't joining. It's commandeering and repurposing. Hence W's demonstration that they are a much better sort of woman than an actual one. By being a man inside a woman's appearance.

nilsmousehammer · 03/02/2023 13:47

200 years and in essence we still have idiot males debating whether women have souls.

ExiledElsie · 03/02/2023 13:47

We need to stop calling men "she".

MmePoppySeedDefage · 03/02/2023 13:49

I agree Elsie.

ExiledElsie · 03/02/2023 13:49

Men being called she happens on mumsnet all the time. Initials or names are respectful of people without needing to use incorrect pronouns.

viques · 03/02/2023 13:50

India could have an argument with themselves in an empty room and still be unable to put forward a convincing and coherent point of view.

picklemewalnuts · 03/02/2023 13:52

ExiledElsie · 03/02/2023 13:37

Tbh I think at sone point last year we agreed it stood for Tired of Explaining Reality to Fuckwits 😁

I expect most people using the term terf couldn't tell you what radical feminist means and they certainly don't check your politics beyond knowing (and saying) that men aren't women.

It serves the same purpose as heretic. We just need to keep on making our arguments.

Or witch.

Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 13:56

BlackForestCake · 03/02/2023 13:33

There's a really bizarre article in the SNP fanzine about last night's show:

www.thenational.scot/politics/23297413.question-time-audience-glasgow---atmosphere-poisonous/

Written by “Josh” who says “I know the smell of bigotry” and characterises Whelan’s comments as “nasty diatribe about biological sex and how women are the victims among all of this”.

Are women not the victims when they are expected to put up with a rapist in their midst?

No idea who “Josh” is related to, that this stuff, which a student newspaper would reject, gets published less than 12 hours after the event.

Willoughby’s attempts to bring some reason into the debate were met with mocking shouts across the panel from Whelan and rapturous applause and hoots from a number of audience members. Bruce opened up the subject to the audience where Whelan’s supporters were represented in one particularly odious exchange between Willoughby and an older woman who had the contempt to look her directly in the eye and effectively state "you are still a man".

I couldn’t believe that this woman could morally justify such disdain to another human being, or that the panel chair simply allowed it to go unchallenged. All this happened among the continuous backing from particular gammon-coloured audience members.

interesting?? Article

viques · 03/02/2023 13:56

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 03/02/2023 13:41

😃

This reminds me of last Friday’s bizarre thread re: nattering (& knattering and gnattering).

My brain has now wandered off to a vaguely sci-fi looking future fantasy-land…

It’s now 2323 and a group of academics are puzzling over the possibility of a shared etymological origin for ‘‘terfyn’ (noun: boundary, limit end) and ‘terfing’ ‘terf’ ‘terfed’ (verb/noun: to define and uphold boundaries relating to the sex based rights of all humans, but especially those of women & girls).

(works like dancing/dance/danced)

eg ‘She terfed happily all around the town, accompanied by her new, extremely experienced terfing partners’

‘I’m perfoming a 5 minute terf on stage tonight, with live, musical accompaniment’

😃😃😃

Breaking 2323 News .

Archaelogists today uncovered the final resting place of an early 21st centuryperson called India Willoughby. To their surprise, since contemporary records indicate that India Willoughby declared themselves a woman complete with a cervix, the skeletal remains were clearly those of a man.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 03/02/2023 13:56

nilsmousehammer · 03/02/2023 13:47

200 years and in essence we still have idiot males debating whether women have souls.

And even if women do have souls they should keep them to themselves and not show them to anyone outside of the home, nor discuss them in the workplace or on the internet.

Women definitely aren’t allowed to talk about having soul-based rights (or any other Women’s Rights) in the public square because that would be Unworthy Of Respect In A Democratic Society (UORIADS).

Right, Josh?

IcakethereforeIam · 03/02/2023 13:57

@NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom Grin that gnatter side quest was fascinating. If it wouldn't be a complete derail I'd be going on about 'scuttle' for days.

I do have some pity for IW and some other high profile tw. Not much, because I know little about them. My pity is also tempered because some stuff they've done has been pretty vile and they seem as self centred as gyroscopes.

Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 13:58

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom · 03/02/2023 13:41

😃

This reminds me of last Friday’s bizarre thread re: nattering (& knattering and gnattering).

My brain has now wandered off to a vaguely sci-fi looking future fantasy-land…

It’s now 2323 and a group of academics are puzzling over the possibility of a shared etymological origin for ‘‘terfyn’ (noun: boundary, limit end) and ‘terfing’ ‘terf’ ‘terfed’ (verb/noun: to define and uphold boundaries relating to the sex based rights of all humans, but especially those of women & girls).

(works like dancing/dance/danced)

eg ‘She terfed happily all around the town, accompanied by her new, extremely experienced terfing partners’

‘I’m perfoming a 5 minute terf on stage tonight, with live, musical accompaniment’

😃😃😃

Earth to Nicola come in Nicola

Boiledbeetle · 03/02/2023 13:58

Very funny though

Emotionalsupportviper · 03/02/2023 13:59

Whatsnewpussyhat · 03/02/2023 13:07

No.
Neither female nor woman should be used to refer to a male human, and 'man' and 'woman' are not bloody genders.
They can call themselves transwomen all they want but they still belong to the male sex class.

Besides, TRA's are now using trans female and referring to themselves as female because they refuse to allow women to differentiate ourselves in any way or with any words.

It's like shifting sand . . .

Transvestite -> transwoman -> trans woman -> trans female.

Nope. Not having it!

wightwine · 03/02/2023 14:11

WinterTrees · 03/02/2023 13:18

Yes!
It's so interesting when India makes these sweeping generalisations that only serve to reveal India's own ignorance, prejudice and rank misogyny. Like when India said that everyone assumes that MN is for discussions about prams and nappies or something.

India has not the slightest inkling of what women's lives are.

I think Willoughby meant that women's prisons are not full of lovely ladies, rather they are full of rough types so a violent man would not be out of place.

zen1 · 03/02/2023 14:17

Willoughby really is poisonous - tweeting Glasgow police about Posie’s forthcoming event.
twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1621435923132043271?cxt=HHwWjsC-hbTYv4AtAAAA

India Willoughby, Question Time Thu 2 Feb 2240
SinnerBoy · 03/02/2023 14:18

Sugarfree23 · Today 10:46

I thought she sounded American and him English but I'm not always the best at guessing accents.

I'm 99% sure that Mxx. Wokerthan-Woke is Canadian.

ArabellaScott · 03/02/2023 14:20

“I know the smell of bigotry”

**

BlackForestCake · 03/02/2023 14:21

@zen1 they (TRAs in general) do this constantly. Women's events attract masked "observers" who sidle up to the police and start trying to persuade them to arrest the speakers.

Bollindger · 03/02/2023 14:23

We need to focus on the trans part.
IW says they are a Trans person.
Transitioning meaning going from one to the other.
Therefore that person is actually acknowledging that they know the truth.
They are the original sex. In this case male trying to become a female.
So no matter how much surgery they have, clothing they wear, they know the truth.

WickedSerious · 03/02/2023 14:26

Wee Josh might well know 'the smell of bigotry' but I can't help wondering how he fares when required to detect the aroma of bullshit.

Rightsraptor · 03/02/2023 14:27

I've never heard IW challenge anyone who describes them as trans. Yet IW also says 'I am a biological woman/female' - I heard this when IW was out of shot last night. I know I really shouldn't be surprised at this stage by such a lack of logic but I still am.

IW is a walking example of giving an inch and taking a mile.

WinterTrees · 03/02/2023 14:29

I think Willoughby meant that women's prisons are not full of lovely ladies, rather they are full of rough types so a violent man would not be out of place.

Yes I think you're right, but why would Willoughby assume that people would think prisons were full of polite ladies, unless that was how they themselves picture the default woman? It's not a surprise to the rest of us that women also come in alternatives to the soft pink simpering variety that is Willoughby's standard, and are actual fully realised human beings, shaped by their own personalities, genes and experiences.

WickedSerious · 03/02/2023 14:31

zen1 · 03/02/2023 14:17

Willoughby really is poisonous - tweeting Glasgow police about Posie’s forthcoming event.
twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1621435923132043271?cxt=HHwWjsC-hbTYv4AtAAAA

If it's women KJK is threatening to annihilate surely India's got nothing to worry about.

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