This is very important to read for all parents

[Yingyamgwingwen]

I know it's the daily mail but this is very important about a man who talks about his journey. It's really good reporting for once! It's about his trans journey and de transition. Counselling and mental health support is vital for all..

I'm de-transitioning and blame 'woke' culture for influencing teens mol.im/a/11691635 via dailym.ai/android

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2023.1073053/full

This is one that should be read by every person who in any way dismisses female transitioners as having the brutal surgery that is the double mastectomy as 'gender affirming treatment' and that they are 'just different' and that we 'don't understand'.

Because, of course we fucking understand.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgwh.2023.1073053/full

"An increasing number of young females are undergoing chest masculinsation mastectomy to affirm a gender identity and/or to relieve gender dysphoria. Some desist in their transgender identification and/or become reconciled with their sex, and then revert (or detransition). To the best of our knowledge, this report presents the first published case of a woman who had chest masculinisation surgery to affirm a gender identity as a trans man, but who later detransitioned, became pregnant and grieved her inability to breastfeed. She described a lack of understanding by maternity health providers of her experience and the importance she placed on breastfeeding. Subsequent poor maternity care contributed to her distress. The absence of breast function as a consideration in transgender surgical literature is highlighted. That breastfeeding is missing in counselling and consent guidelines for chest masculinisation mastectomy is also described as is the poor quality of existing research on detransition rates and benefit or otherwise of chest masculinising mastectomy. Recommendations are made for improving maternity care for detransitioned women1. Increasing numbers of chest masculinsation mastectomies will likely be followed by more new mothers without functioning breasts who will require honest, knowledgeable, and compassionate support."

Seriously, the casual treatment of these operations really needs to stop.

Hiding the extensive damage to healthy body tissue behind bland assertions is abhorrent misinformation. And likely from people who will never experience these operations or ever acknowledge what they mean.

This is crystal clear:

It has been falsely claimed it is not possible to predict breastfeeding outcomes after chest masculinisation surgery based on surgical technique (13). Where surgery removes and grafts the nipple-areola complex, there is little to no possibility of milk removal from the nipple, even should glandular tissue remain. Where the nipple is kept in place but tissue underneath it removed and duct connections cut or nipple integrity forfeited, milk removal is also impossible. Furthermore, surgical complications such as necrosis can result in nipple loss (4, 14, 15) and surgery that removes the nipple and areola entirely may be chosen (16, 17). Considered together, these factors mean that many, if not most, individuals who have undergone chest masculinisation mastectomy, are unlikely to retain ability to both produce and extract milk. Proper discussion is required for the patient to choose and consent. Without recognising that the future will include pregnancy for at least some patients, surgeons cannot offer a conservative approach; either of deferring surgery or attempting to preserve some function.

It's a superb paper @Helleofabore with so many important points to choose from for future reference.

I started a thread on it

Superb paper - case report of detransitioned woman who grieved her inability to breastfeed. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4734921-superb-paper-case-report-of-detransitioned-woman-who-grieved-her-inability-to-breastfeed

But have been too busy and going out for the day shortly so have t been able to properly go through the paper in detail.

I did steal it from your thread Fanny. Thank you for posting it. I have also not had time to go through it as much as I hope to.

However, I felt it needed to go here for people to read.

I always am kicking myself that I can’t find the tweets from the Swedish fertility specialist who reported a dramatic increase in post testosterone treatment women who had no idea about the lasting effects it can have on fertility.

Here is an article I am putting here from a whistleblower from the USA.

This is grim reading. But I am sure that posters such as tandora will minimise with ‘it is just treatment that trans people need, you just don’t understand’.

Well. No. I don’t think any person should just ‘understand’. Teenagers having their vaginas ripped open in sex due to testosterone is not just acceptable collateral. Girls not realizing they will have to navigate with a hugely swollen clitoris and the pain of this is not acceptable either.

www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

So much damage to bodies minimised by ‘just treatment, you don’t understand’, seems complicit to allowing experiments to be conducted on vulnerable teens and children to me.

That is absolutely grim. Thank you for posting.

No matter how much I read about the harm happening to children and young people, I'm continually shocked at the extreme levels of damage done to them by this ideology.
Thank you for posting this - appalling as it is.

Can somebody with a subscription archive that link? I can't read all of it without one, though the beginning is disturbing enough.

The realities of the treatments including surgery and hormones are not discussed widely and honestly. The more it is discussed, the more informed patients are.

I know a women who in her 30s took the same drugs as puberty blocker for another reason and two decades later can barely walk due to issues with bone density, has at least one organ in chronic failure, has all the complications that go with that organ failing, has her teeth falling out and thinks she will die in a few years time.

From just short stints taking the same drug.

Posters completely dismissive of extreme negative reactions of the medical treatment pushed to be acceptable are very concerning. They spread misinformation and do so while trying to portray other’s who have researched this in depth as ignorant as we saw on this thread. The thing is they are so driven by this idealism, it is ideological, that they will never realise or acknowledge that they have contributed to it.

Has anyone linked the video of de-transitioner Ritchie?

Or, today a DM article posted, about transgender ideology in schools written by a girl at a school?

How Susie Green of Mermaids had her 15/16 year old son castrated in Thailand? And that she has been heard to say her husband had been worried their son was gay?

The current state of the debate not far from me. www.pressherald.com/2023/02/11/new-hampshire-students-protest-urinal-ban-in-gender-debate/

Thanks Britinme.

Did your eyes roll at the description of being "capable of “differentiating between the male and female sexes in athletic competitions, criminal incarceration, or places of intimate privacy”, as being anti-transgender?

That is remarkable isn't it.

Well done those students though for protesting to attempt to get their urinals back.

I've just been listening to a radio programme on NPR prattling gaily on about gender fluidity and how vital it is to "affirm" "trans children" in their gender of choice if we want to stop them committing suicide. I'm not attempting to pretend that there aren't children confused about their gender identity and sexuality but I am fairly aghast that rather than watchful waiting the assumption is to leap straight to affirmation.

What is NPR, and what was the name of the programme?

The suicide idea is not true.
There are many factors causing depression in young people. Gender dysphoria is a symptom not a cause.

Young people given hormones actually suffer worse depression. This is a Finnish study.
twitter.com/LeorSapir/status/1620448081039994881

Affirming is not neutral, and is likely to lead to a transgender pathway of for people who most likely would have desisted.

Sorry, that was responding to Britinme · Today 20:12

Young people given hormones actually suffer worse depression

:( There was that recent study in NEJM where two of the cohort of teenagers given cross-sex hormones (out of a couple of hundred) committed suicide.

Of course there’s not enough information to say the hormones caused it - but it’s a staggeringly high rate, and the entire argument for doing this to kids always comes down to suicide prevention. And then with additional evidence like this- you have to wonder about whether the treatment caused it.

And if something else caused the depression, for which gender dysphoria was a symptom - like previous abuse, or trauma, or shame for being gay - of course the hormones will not help.

The underlying unhappiness will still be there and this could lead to the suicide.

This logic has been long discussed. I cannot believe how dismissed it is though.

I remember reading a paper from Marcus Evans about it a few years ago and I remember reading posts on this board saying how horrifically transphobic he was... a psychotherapist who worked with trans people at the Tavistock.

@ScrollingLeaves NPR is National Public Radio. I'm in the US and this is the nearest thing we have to BBC Radio 4.

^Britinme* · Today 13:17
@ScrollingLeaves NPR is National Public Radio. I'm in the US and this is the nearest thing we have to BBC Radio 4.

Thank you Brutinme. What a shame they have been reporting this way, no doubt in good faith, but on bad or skewed evidence.