This is very important to read for all parents

[Yingyamgwingwen]

I know it's the daily mail but this is very important about a man who talks about his journey. It's really good reporting for once! It's about his trans journey and de transition. Counselling and mental health support is vital for all..

I'm de-transitioning and blame 'woke' culture for influencing teens mol.im/a/11691635 via dailym.ai/android

Great work Helle.

NotBad

That post may be significantly telling though.

I would expect that the poster is not really familiar with those who have had puberty blocked. We know that so many extremists hand wave away the ability to enjoy sex for others. I remember a mature male poster a year or so ago who declared to us that a child who has their puberty blocked would just fit in with the Asexual sexuality.

Yeah. No joke. A mature male who seemed to have had children simply declared that these children don’t need to understand what they are missing out on.

Damage is allowed because of evangelical like faith. Never questioning but never allowing others too either.

”Lots of trans people who’ve have interventions have a perfectly satisfying and happy sex life. Sorry if it doesn’t conform to your heterosexist norms.”

in response to the known serious impact of lack of orgasm and pleasure ?

Fuck. The built in denial mechanism is as plain as day isn’t it?

Is there a playbook somewhere that reads: when denying the side effect that means no ability to orgasm turn it to ‘shame the supposed heterosexuals’.

I can only assume that this blithe disregard for someone else’s lack of ability to orgasm comes from a person who has that ability and maybe even has their own children.

Something else that gets pithily downplayed.

When you finally see it, you simply can’t miss it.

“They can just be asexual” was also used by the lawyers for the Tavistock in justifying rendering children that way. You know, that “garbage” judgement that documented the argument that it didn’t matter if children grew up to be asexual adults.

And the fact surgeries cause a significant impact on sexual functioning, together with significant complications, is being used by trans activists to argue that surgery should not be a prerequisite to legally being able to change one’s sex marker.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/article/queensland-looks-set-to-scrap-unnecessary-requirement-for-surgery-to-change-gender-on-birth-certificate/7areglo1a

So which is it? Either having hormones and surgery has no impact on people’s sex lives, or the impact on sex lives is too serious for people to have it done.

(For the record, I don’t think anyone should be having hormone treatments and surgeries, and I don’t think anyone should be able to change their legal sex marker.)

I have been watching events in QLD with a heavy heart NotBad. However it has been good to see the discussions getting some publicity at least. (yeah… love ya Queenland! 👀)

I do now remember that comment from the Tavistock too.

It is sickening to see adults say that. To say ‘it is all fine! There are so many ways to have sex!!! While ignoring that it doesn’t matter how many ways a person can have sex, there is no sexual function in some cases and no ability to climax. But of course …. a person without that potential is still a great sex partner for someone aren’t they? Or they can just go without sex, says people who have and hopefully still enjoy sex!

Then comes the part where they declare that having their own children is not an issue either. Plenty of people choose not to or cannot. And if they do want children then you can use a surrogate ! While ignoring the ethics and exploitative nature of that decision.

The twists at this stage are so predictable.

I accidentally read this 😩. I was not intending to return to this thread.

Of course surgeries shouldn’t be required for gender recognition. I never said that surgeries have “no impact” on someone’s sex life, equally it’s nonsense to say that a perfectly satisfying sex life is not possible with surgery. For many trans people their sex life radically improves after transition. But should it be required - absolutely not. It is of course an individual and personal choice.

Ultimately you need to butt your nose out of other people’s sex lives , their legal gender, and what they do with their own bodies. That’s what this is about when it comes down to brass tacks.

over and out.

Ultimately you need to butt your nose out of other people’s sex lives , their legal gender, and what they do with their own bodies. That’s what this is about when it comes down to brass tacks.

Sorry but we have every right to be alarmed that children are being socially transitioned to this pathway.

Consenting adults can do what they like.

Children are being socially transitioned to something that it is very very hard to back track from and are being harmed as a result.

I will not shut up about the harm it is doing, especially to autistic girls.

When it comes to the brass tacks as you put it, you have asked us to shut up about social contagion and influencer factors for children. I am not going to shut up when it is clear that this can result in irreparable harm.

Nor will I shut up.

Imagine standing by while children are indoctrinated with confusing and false ideas which can lead to enormous physical and mental harm to them.

That is it?

That is the sum total of your contributions? Your bravado about how much you know, how ignorant everyone else is?

Well readers. Seems it is the same as usual then.

A poster with only the shame setting and plenty of emotional manipulation, misrepresentations and nothing else.

Ultimately you need to butt your nose out of other people’s sex lives

Not when it's harming children. Fuck that.

It's Pie #2 ffs.

I know children are the worry. But I would like to add that whilst Consenting adults can do what they like, an 18, 19 and 20+ year old is still young and ought not be making permanent decisions with life long impacts.

This is a very good point.

The brain is not fully developed till 25.

Yes that is a good point.

And there are consenting adults who regret transitioning.

This man is suing the nhs for malpractice.

gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/89-ritchies-detransition-the-myth-of-adult-invulnerability

(I was trying to find his substack (?) but can't.)

There is also such a thing as a vulnerable adult; and any adult can be vulnerable in some circumstances. So, while I agree that children (most definitely including adolescents) are the main concern, there are many adults vulnerable to a movement with cult-like characteristics.

This is very true. And as a parent, this situation, like your adult child's Transparent is very delicate.

Not to minimise your situation in any way, this also brings us back to Oli London. Who really does seem to be a very vulnerable man but is speaking out. For whatever reason, he is speaking out despite adversity.

What a coward you are. Too scared to address the reality that children are being rendered asexual on purpose. That’s everyone’s business. Telling us to “butt out”.

No. Never. Not while children are being harmed.

"For many trans people their sex life radically improves after transition."

I doubt there is one shred of evidence for this bold statement. Apart from 'my mates seem to be ok'.

Readers, the side effect of lack of sexual pleasure and orgasm is a well known one from stopping the growth of an immature penis with puberty blockers.

But hey, such callous disregard because one poster has some mature transitioned mates and they seem to have told this poster they have satisfying sex lives and this poster has shown the complete lack of ability to understand the difference between a mature male who loves their penis and uses it regularly or at least has a prostate still vs a puberty blocked one.

It really is that simple.

So many of these people that show such blatant disregard for the plight of these children are driven by the need to never actually read anything that might challenge their view. Because they probably know that if they did question it within their group, they would be ostracised.

Which is coincidently one of the reasons that negative side effects are not discussed even within groups of friends. And also the reason some very vulnerable people continue with a transition they already have doubts about. Another fact discovered by listening to a very wide range of people.

And maybe even fucking reading the Daily Mail.

It is pretty blatant isn't it. Those accusations of ignorance were pure projection.

A poster who boasted about their depth of knowledge cannot even engage with the realities of childhood and adolescent transition.

la la la la - fingers in ears kind of stuff.

Re: transing young people
there was a thread yesterday of a Finnish report;

Riittakerttu Kaltiala, Finland's leading expert on pediatric gender medicine and chief psychiatrist at its largest gender clinic (Tampere University), just gave an interview to the country's leading newspaper, Helsingin Sanomat.

The interview highlights just how out of step the U.S. medical establishment is with its European counterparts on pediatric gender medicine. Doctors and medical groups in Finland have been willing and able to stand up to activists, including within their own ranks

Though not about sexual function after transitioning,

the report does point out that it is not true that not being affirmed is is the cause of suicidal thoughts in gender dysphoric young people

It mentions, incidentally, that their mental health deteriorates if they are given hormones.

It goes on to say that a large Swedish study showed that those who had had gender reassignment surgery
were more likely to commit suicide.

Excerpts :
Helsingin: Suicide was a very rare occurrence in about ten years among young people seeking gender identity diagnoses. On the other hand, in a large Swedish study, suicide mortality had clearly increased among adults who had received gender reassignment treatments

"Therefore it is not justified to tell the parents of young people identifying as transgender that a young person is at risk of suicide without medical treatments and that the danger can be alleviated with gender reassignment," says Kaltiala.

twitter.com/LeorSapir/status/1620448081039994881

It is La La La stuff with fingers in the ears while people have been trying to answer in good faith.

“It mentions, incidentally, that their mental health deteriorates if they are given hormones.”

“It goes on to say that a large Swedish study showed that those who had had gender reassignment surgery
were more likely to commit suicide.”

Yes. I remember reading these points brought up by various gender clinical experts in UK, US and Australia too.

This is consistent.

There is this narrative by lobby groups and activists that hormones and surgery increase mental health and reduce suicide. This is never been proved. And the clinicians report that mental health may have a blip with a new treatment but then decreases again. They, the experts, report that those transitioners feel the treatment was not the magic pill they expected. They then seek the next treatment option.

Just as Oli London is saying he felt after each surgery.

The clinicians believe it is because of not treating comorbidities first. including trauma

What a shame Mumsnet sees this as FWR ‘other side of the debate’ business instead of important factual information warning parents about a dangerous trend that is affecting a surprising number of children.

Yes, it was a very strange “moving thread” message.

This may be disappointing news but we're walking the line here trying to allow the debate to happen.

Walking what line? Keeping parents informed of a significant cultural phenomenon that is medicalising children is a line to be walked? Bizarre.

There is this study that had to be corrected because they drew a conclusion that the data did not evidence. I posted it back a page in amongst information for Tandora.

It is worth posting this again.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31581798/

Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study
Branstrom & Pachankis (Aug 2020)

Pachankis is a professor from Yale, and was caught out drawing conclusions where the evidence was so weak they had to retract.

This is the state of evidence that ‘hormones and surgeries’ improved trans people’s mental health.

Seriously, spreading misinformation by effectively dismissing the serious life lasting impacts of these brutal surgeries is fucked up.

I only hope that readers of this thread start reading and evaluating for themselves rather than believe misinformation because it fits what they want or need to believe.

I agree scrolling and notbad. As interesting as Oli seems to be, he is only loosely a feminist issue. In that he is an example of cosmetic surgery addiction and the beauty myth etc.

So was the move just a matter of semantics?

If you’d have asked; "Am I being unreasonable to think that de-transitioning is important for parents to hear about?"

Or if you’d have asked: "Am I being unreasonable to blame 'woke' culture for influencing parents and teens?"

Then would the thread have remained in AIBU? Shame, because parents do desperately need to have full information on this topic because it is woefully lacking.